Re: Newbie questions

My US$0.02 (for what it's worth, which isn't much any more):

I thought Phil's response was literally one of the best, if not THE
best, response to an end-user question I've ever seen on this list.
Most of the gnu-screen list consists of a couple individuals using
it as a way to turn new-combers into what I call "mood scapegoats."
I felt Phil's response was incredibly thorough and honest.  The
user is going to walk away knowing more than he/she did before he/she
posted the question.  I want to take a moment to actually thank
Phil for that response -- I'd been considering firing off a mail
saying "This is great, we need more of this!", but decided it might
just stir up the ants due to the (note quotes) "anti-Sven" prefix.

There is great irony in your complaint about criticism, Sven.  Of
literally all of the list members, you -- by far -- are the most
critical.  In fact, you're not even critical: you're downright rude
90% of the time.  Responses like '"because"' provide absolutely
no benefit what-so-ever -- to anyone, including those reading the
list as a digest.  I'd love to fire off a common rebuttal cliche
("if you don't have anything nice to say..."), but I believe in the
blunt/brash approach.  It's just that there is an obvious difference
between insulting a newcomer for not reading docs and slapping them
on the wrist reminding them to read the documentation more thoroughly.
I strongly urge you to go back and read every single response you've
provided and put yourself in the recipients shoes.  Since this list
is archived and stuck on search engines (re: "find it on Google"), it
seems to me that positive beneficial information should be available
on the list, not insulting responses.  I sure as hell wouldn't spend
30 minutes sifting through a mailing list that consists of unjustified
insinuating comments when trying to find a solution to a problem.

On a more positive note, I am one person here who DOES appreciate
your screen page, Sven.  Admittedly I've only had to use it a couple
times to see if I could find answers unavailable otherwise, but that
is better than nothing.  I wholeheartedly agree with your stance that
it seems very unreasonable that your page hasn't even been referenced
in the official screen documentation anywhere; that would bum me out
as well.  Besides the man page and this mailing list, your page is
the best resource out there for screen.  I doubt Phil was trying to
imply otherwise -- I believe he was just saying that sometimes the
information on your page doesn't always work depending on the
situation.  Don't take it too personally -- we're all supposed to be
part of this open-source project together (well, I'm not "part" of
it per se, but I'm at least here).

I too hope screen is re-written.  No, I'm not offering my time; I
have other projects I'm working on (some FreeBSD ports submissions
have kept me busy recently, and I have some other open-source
software to work on involving preparing for 64-bit architectures
and time_t changes), otherwise I would likely offer to create
documentation for a screen spinoff or otherwise.  In a few months
if there's a need for organised docs, I'll gladly hold up my hand.

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwick                                 jdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking                        http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator                   Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.                             |

On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 12:58:39AM +0100, Sven Guckes wrote:
> * Phil!Gregory <[email protected]> [2004-03-25 23:39]:
> > * [email protected] <[email protected]> [2004-03-25 14:33 -0500]:
> > > 1. It appears that the DISPLAY variable gets messed up when I detach
> > >    my screen window at work, re-attach it at home, and then
> > >    detach/re-attach it once more at work.
> >
> > Sven's page is rather light on details,
> > and the solution doesn't always work.
> 
> well, i'm sure your own pages on screen will make it all better.
> 
> in fact i don't care to put more work into this as the
> maintainers of screen do not care to incorporate any of the
> info to screen's documentation, anyway.  they will still
> have to know how to use a search engine to find my pages.
> 
> so - why put work on improving the pages
> when all users will have to google for it?
> in ten years there hasn't been even *one*
> hint about my pages in the distribution.
> 
> i take it that the maintainers
> don't want their users to know.
> 
> besides, this mailing list is just a channel for questions
> and answers before they get to the webpages and then
> they should move on to the documenation of screen.
> and the goal of those pages were to be an interim place
> before some improved documentation gets into
> the distribution of the program.
> 
> so much for the theory.
> 
> anyway... it seems that everyone thinks that these pages
> just are there because i am bored.  well, they are not.
> considering how much change it all had to the program's
> documentation they have merely been a waste of time.
> 
> i am hoping that someone has the guts to take the
> code and either fork it or simply rewrite it all.
> it's time to start anew because so many time has
> been wasted by ignoring exiting patches and docs.
> 
> i am truly *sick* of getting criticism of this kind instead
> on the mailing list.  why doesn't anyone ever write an email
> to me directly with a hint about typos, corrections on errors
> or simply additions and improvements?
> 
> anyway, if you still believe that the maintenance of webpages
> finally gives the maintainers a clue to improve their program's
> documentation or to simply include existing documentation in
> some contrib directory then you should start your own ones now.
> 
> maybe you all have the time to write up the lot again
> and have an effect on the program's development.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> ps: this mailing list closes on april 1st.
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  


 
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