RE[2]: WinBoard for watching Chess960 games
[email protected] Wed, 02 Mar 2022 09:37:25 +0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.gnu.xboard.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
------=_Part_655_388451598.1646213845 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, I see what the problem is: the game record provides the FEN tag befor= e the Variant tag.=0ASo when the game is loaded while WinBoard is not yet= in FRC mode, the Variant tag will=0Atrigger a variant switch to FRC, whi= ch will also trigger a new shuffling of the start position.=0AThis has on= ly a 1-in-96 chance of reproducing the position from the FEN tag, and in = all=0Aother cases the following moves will no longer fit the start positi= on.=0AIf I change the order of these tags, the game loads without problem= s.=0AIf WinBoard is set to FRC first, through the New Variant dialog, the= game also loads=0Awithout problems, irrespective of the tag order. This = should be considered a work-around=0Afor the mentioned problem.=0AI guess= loading a game of a variant that is not currently selected is bound to c= ause trouble=0Aif the Variant tag does not come before other variant-spec= ific tags, such as the FEN tag.=0ABecause the FEN would be parsed in the = wrong context: piece IDs in the FEN can have different=0Ameaning in diffe= rent variants, and even the board size could be different, or extra field= s=0Acould be present (e.g. for recording the number of remaining checks i= n 3-checks) which=0Awould get ignored.=0ANow the Variant tag is an extens= ion to the PGN standard, and there is thus no official standard=0Athat ex= plicitly declares the ordering of the tags as used by TCEC as illegal. Al= though a lot=0Aof misery could be avoided by declaring it is. Nevertheles= s, for the convenience of being=0Aable to automatically load such 'illogi= cally encoded' games (e.g. when using the file=0Aassociation for loading = the game by double-clicking the PGN file icon), it would be better=0Ato d= efer processing of a FEN tag until move number 1 is encountered.=0AOp di.= , mrt. 1, 2022 om 20:47, Tim Mann schreef:=0AI'm not really working on x= board or WinBoard anymore. I'm cc'ing the developers mailing list on this= reply in case anyone else can help.=0AOn Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:46 AM Va= dim Trofimov wrote:=0AHello, Tim Mann,=0AI really like your WinBoard pro= gram. I use Winboard 4.2.7 and Winboard 4.8.0 to watch games by downloadi= ng and opening the archive in pgn format. On the website https://tcec-che= ss.com/#x=3Darchive (https://tcec-chess.com/#x=3Darchive) there is an arc= hive of computer engine games, for example, Season 21, where FRC 4 is Fis= cher Chess 960: Winboard 4.2.7 Winboard 4.8.0 does not show Fischer chess= 960 games, they write an error message "Illegal move" on moves 0-0; 0-0-= 0 and other moves if there are comments in parentheses in the pgn text. I= n previous seasons, computer engines also played Fischer's 960 chess, and= Winboard also writes an error message "Illegal move" on moves 0-0; 0-0-0= . Please fix these Winboard errors to be able to view Fischer's 960 chess= games. =0A=0APS: Archive of people's games in png format from the site c= hess-poster.com (http://chess-poster.com) WinBoard shows without errors.= =0ABest wishes,=0AVadim Trofimov from Russia ------=_Part_655_388451598.1646213845 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html><html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"t= ext/html; charset=3Dutf-8" /></head><body><div data-crea=3D"font-wrapper"= style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; direction: lt= r"><div style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 16px"></div><br><div>OK,= I see what the problem is: the game record provides the FEN tag before t= he Variant tag.</div><div>So when the game is loaded while WinBoard is no= t yet in FRC mode, the Variant tag will</div><div>trigger a variant switc= h to FRC, which will also trigger a new shuffling of the start position.<= /div><div>This has only a 1-in-96 chance of reproducing the position from= the FEN tag, and in all</div><div>other cases the following moves will n= o longer fit the start position.<br></div><div><br></div><div>If I change= the order of these tags, the game loads without problems.</div><div><br>= </div><div>If WinBoard is set to FRC first, through the New Variant dialo= g, the game also loads</div><div>without problems, irrespective of the ta= g order. This should be considered a work-around</div><div>for the mentio= ned problem.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I guess loading a game of a var= iant that is not currently selected is bound to cause trouble</div><div>i= f the Variant tag does not come before other variant-specific tags, such = as the FEN tag.</div><div>Because the FEN would be parsed in the wrong co= ntext: piece IDs in the FEN can have different</div><div>meaning in diffe= rent variants, and even the board size could be different, or extra field= s</div><div>could be present (e.g. for recording the number of remaining = checks in 3-checks) which</div><div>would get ignored.</div><div><br></di= v><div>Now the Variant tag is an extension to the PGN standard, and there= is thus no official standard</div><div>that explicitly declares the orde= ring of the tags as used by TCEC as illegal. Although a lot</div><div>of = misery could be avoided by declaring it is. Nevertheless, for the conveni= ence of being</div><div>able to automatically load such 'illogically enco= ded' games (e.g. when using the file</div><div>association for loading th= e game by double-clicking the PGN file icon), it would be better</div><di= v>to defer processing of a FEN tag until move number 1 is encountered.<br= ></div><div></div><br><br><div data-anchor=3D"reply-title">Op di., mrt. 1= , 2022 om 20:47, Tim Mann <[email protected]> schreef:</div><blockqu= ote><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I'm not really working on xboard or W= inBoard anymore. I'm cc'ing the developers mailing list on this reply in = case anyone else can help.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div><div dir=3D= "ltr">On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:46 AM Vadim Trofimov <<a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" tabindex=3D"-1" rel=3D"external= " class=3D"external" style=3D"cursor: inherit;">[email protected]</a>&= gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border= -left: 1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex"><div><div style=3D"f= ont-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size: 16px"><d= iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"> <div><div>Hello, Tim Mann,</div><div>I r= eally like your WinBoard program. I use Winboard 4.2.7 and Winboard 4.8.0= to watch games by downloading and opening the archive in pgn format. On = the website <a href=3D"https://tcec-chess.com/#x=3Darchive" target=3D"_bl= ank" tabindex=3D"-1" rel=3D"external" class=3D"external" style=3D"cursor:= inherit;">https://tcec-chess.com/#x=3Darchive</a> there is an archive of= computer engine games, for example, Season 21, where FRC 4 is Fischer Ch= ess 960: Winboard 4.2.7 Winboard 4.8.0 does not show Fischer chess 960 ga= mes, they write an error message "Illegal move" on moves 0-0; 0-0-0 and o= ther moves if there are comments in parentheses in the pgn text. In previ= ous seasons, computer engines also played Fischer's 960 chess, and Winboa= rd also writes an error message "Illegal move" on moves 0-0; 0-0-0. Pleas= e fix these Winboard errors to be able to view Fischer's 960 chess games.= =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">PS: Archive of people's games= in png format from the site <a href=3D"http://chess-poster.com" target= =3D"_blank" tabindex=3D"-1" rel=3D"external" class=3D"external" style=3D"= cursor: inherit;">chess-poster.com</a> WinBoard shows without errors.</di= v></div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,<br></div></div><div di= r=3D"ltr">Vadim Trofimov=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr">from Russia</div><di= v><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;fo= nt-size: 16px"><br><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><= /div></blockquote></div></body></html> ------=_Part_655_388451598.1646213845--