Re: [CsMain] [GSoC2011] Multi-Purpose UDP Networking System For Robust Client To Server Communication

I have one question about the UDP bit.
What does rolling our own custom networking solution give us over supporting
existing high-performance networking libraries for games e.g. raknet?
If nothing, then I would suggest to focus more on the property class level
of things.

Who might mentor what is a little unknown at this point :) A few of us might
be interested, depends on other proposals.

On 4 April 2011 10:44, Dan Walters <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 3 April 2011 23:27, Christian Van Brussel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > a network layer in CEL is clearly of great interest.
> >
> > But I see one main problem to your current proposition: it does not seem
> > to care at all about the current network layer of CEL (see
> > CEL/include/physicallayer/network.h). However, if I remember correctly,
> > the guy who wrote it spent almost a year thinking about this API and
> > asking questions on the CEL forum before commiting it.
>
> I will look up on the forums. The CEL implementation is a very
> important part and the most unique of the design. Am also looking at
> network.h. The interface looks robust and well thought through, and
> features some of the things I discussed such as channels for example.
> I will try to amend my proposal to add to this rather than replace
>
> >
> > The current implementation of the network plugin is TCP-based, but the
> API
> > abstracts the actual implementation of the plugin, so this can be
> replaced
> > later by a UDP or Peer-to-Peer implementation. The API is rather good so
> > there is no real point to start a complete new one doing basically the
> > same thing.
>
> I agree that there is no point in re-writing code that already works.
> My argument in the pdf document is that a TCP library will not be able
> to provide high performance networking as the TCP protocol
> incorporates certain time delays when waiting for lost packets,
> keeping packets in order, etc. which in poor network conditions (when
> packet loss occurs such as when using wireless for example) can cause
> 'jumpy' flow of data. This is fine for a strategy game, a chat server,
> etc. but will not give acceptable performance for a game that requires
> responsiveness such as a first person game.
>
> This is a point that I would like to discuss - is this kind of
> performance required?
>
> It is possible to add an additional networking interface for UDP for
> when the TCP library isnt responsive enough, but having two libraries
> when UDP could do the job of both seems pointless.
>
> Likewise, we could not add UDP if time critical delivery is not a
> prioritized feature, instead focusing on communication and entity
> layers.
>
> >
> > What the current network plugin lacks is described in the GSOC page: "A
> > first need would be to define and implement a system so that the whole
> > networking behavior is defined through property classes, e.g. so that a
> > CEL game can become a networked game simply by adding some specific
> > entities and property classes. Another need would be to define for each
> > existing property classes how they update efficiently to/from the
> > network."
>
> I do try to discuss this at length in the object / entity layer. As
> far as I can tell, it is a case of serializing entities or members of
> entities and synchronizing those values. For this I was considering
> inspiration from Boost.Serialize where the programmer could implement
> write and read virtual functions for an entity and the networking
> engine could take care of the rest.
>
> I was also proposing that the networking implementation was slightly
> open ended so that the application programmer could decide under what
> data should be send and when. Different types of games will lend
> themselves to different implementations, sometimes a game will want to
> sync positions and rotations, other times it will want to sync physics
> forces, other times user input.
>
> In the pdf I was proposing a simple set of objects that handle the
> synchronization of an entity or the property of an entity. This would
> also include a framework for managing games, providing callback for
> players joining and disconnecting, etc. It looks like much of that is
> already implemented.
>
> >
> > That would be the main topic of a GSOC project on it. An UDP
> > implementation is clearly interesting, but it would have any interest
> only
> > once the network layer is actually completely integrated in CEL.
> >
>
> Perhaps I should amend the application to propose something more along
> the lines of developing the existing library into production code
> including implementing the synchronization handling objects, game
> management, etc?
>
> If at all, UDP could be an optional deliverable. This way, the focus
> would be on developing a finished product rather than an entire
> networking framework and CEL would probably have more to show for as a
> result.
>
> Can I ask who would mentor this project?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dan
>
>
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-- 
- Mike

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