Re: Inkscape can be extremely frustrating

I'll pile on...

Having followed this topic:

I have read through a dozens of requests for help with invisible objects,
and not one nooB indicated that they had gone through the tutorials in the
help menu (or even the first tutorial).  *This suggests that users who have
actually gone through the tutorials are not having these types of issues.*

Rather than change program architecture, I'd consider a first-run document
or splash notification that encourages new users to explore the built in
tutorials and the manual. A large amount of nooB frustration and community
intervention could be avoided if the new users took the small amount of
time the tutorials involve.  After first-run or at user discretion, blank
new document opens at launch without the message.

Also, very few community folks assisting in the issue have suggested using
the status bar to gain more insight to what is happening in the workspace.
Even Brynn's much referred-to post on the "invisible"  subject fails to
suggest that the status bar style-indicator displays vital information, or
that the tool controls style indicator shows if color is applied to a
selected tool. Pointing users in the direction of self-help using the
provided tools might further reduce the need for interventive community
response.

I do agree that it makes sense that when stroke-width is manipulated,
stroke paint should be applied if none is present. However, see below:

> draw a circle
> adjust outline to 3mm
> Set stroke paint to "none"  *Stroke width now indicates 0.000*

*Adjust stroke width to 9mm, click enter, numeric field indicates 0.000*Add
back stroke and width is now set to 9mm.

Win 8.1 64bit, Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06)

So, in the above case, stroke width is indeed being written to the XML, but
not displayed in the numeric field, which makes sense, if stroke paint is
set to none.

Lastly, I will add that users working with paths for cnc don't need stroke
or fill. Lotta folks at my makerspace output to dxf, so it's common  to
view in outlines and not care about style. That said, it won't matter if
strokes are applied (until the file is re-opened with normal view).

Regards,
TD








On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:29 PM K B <[email protected]> wrote:

> Victor:  Thank you!   I did not know about the Logos by Nick videos.
>
> Ken
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:59 AM Victor Westmann <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi ken,
>>
>> Inkscape it is really amazing and can do a ton of things... you just have
>> to take some time to learn it.
>>
>> I would say that watching the Channel "Logos by Nick" on youtube is a
>> really good start.
>>
>> He teaches things from begin to end and teaches a lot of cool stuff.
>>
>> Wish you all the best,
>>
>>
>>
>> --Victor Westmann
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:53 AM, K B <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> C R:
>>> I guess I was looking to do some real simple basic stuff and came into a
>>> very robust program with many bells and whistles that made it more
>>> complicated
>>> and harder to learn.  Wished they had a "Lite version" so I could get up
>>> and running
>>> right away.  I am not a professional illustrator, just want to create
>>> fairly simple Line Designs.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 AM C R <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We are working hard to make it better and easier and more intuitive to
>>>> use. You can certainly help our efforts by donation to the project - every
>>>> little bit helps.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime it's probably easier to learn Inkscape's quirks and
>>>> just work around them for now. I've been using Inkscape as a professional
>>>> designer for over 7 years now, and once you get the hang of it, it's not so
>>>> bad. A lot of bugs have been fixed since I first started using it, and lots
>>>> of new features added. Mostly I'm grateful for devs who have helped and
>>>> continue to help solve problems, and help where I can, and for community
>>>> members who help users and make videos on how to use Inkscape.
>>>>
>>>> Your feedback also helps, so thanks for bringing it to our attention!
>>>>
>>>> -C
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 10:27 K B, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brynn/CR:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you 100%.  I can still remember when I first used it; it
>>>>> was
>>>>> so frustrating!  It did not preform like you think it would.  I also
>>>>> was just trying
>>>>> to use the eraser, but it did not erase part of the image like I
>>>>> thought it would.
>>>>> If I had a lot of extra money, I would probably just start using
>>>>> Adobe's Illustrator.
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 1:48 AM C R <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is there is no agreed upon solution. But I think Inkscape
>>>>>> should never draw an invisible object anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Particularly,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. If both fill and stroke are set to none, Inkscape should resort to
>>>>>> the Inkscape default setting of the bezier tool, which is black and white
>>>>>> without dashed lines. Drawing an invisible shape is an error.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the user modifies the line width, and the line is set to
>>>>>> "none", Inkscape should set the colour of the line to the Inkscape default
>>>>>> : black.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is a better solution than setting the default behaviour
>>>>>> of Inkscape to a bad workflow - users should not be getting used to having
>>>>>> to change the colour of the line and stroke each and every time they draw
>>>>>> something. It is not intuitive because when you draw in real life you pick
>>>>>> up a pen which is the colour you want and draw with it until you are done,
>>>>>> then choose another colour when you want a different one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -C
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 07:59 K B, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Brynn:
>>>>>>> Thank you for the Link about the Bug fix.  Since Inkscape is free,
>>>>>>> maybe the creators
>>>>>>> are not very motivated to fix everything about  it ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it were a high price program like Adobe Illustrator, there would
>>>>>>> have enough money to
>>>>>>> pay programmers to fix it and make it better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:47 PM brynn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some developers may remember a message I posted to the mailing
>>>>>>>> lists some time
>>>>>>>> ago, maybe a year or 2 ago, asking to have at least some of the
>>>>>>>> tools set for
>>>>>>>> Own Style (by default) rather than Last Used, to prevent this kind
>>>>>>>> of utter
>>>>>>>> confusion among new users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At first, on the mailing list, some developers sort of hijacked it
>>>>>>>> into their
>>>>>>>> own different project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But ultimately (in a bug report) one developer suggested a
>>>>>>>> reasonable solution.
>>>>>>>> See this bug report:
>>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone else (developers) could chime in on that solution,
>>>>>>>> perhaps we could
>>>>>>>> get it coded into one of the next new versions, and prevent this
>>>>>>>> type of
>>>>>>>> headache for new users?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you very much,
>>>>>>>> brynn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: K B
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:30 PM
>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All I want to do to begin with is draw a simple Line Circle. (white
>>>>>>>> background
>>>>>>>> with white inside the circle).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But instead it draws a dashed-rectangle with (4) little squares.
>>>>>>>> Two squares
>>>>>>>> are on the rectangle and the other two are outside.  So, I go into:
>>>>>>>> Edit,
>>>>>>>> Preferences and the Circle it not even listed under Shapes!   Crazy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does anybody know what I should do?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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