Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

> It's inaccurate and unfair to characterize current inkscapeforum.com forum 
> members as resentful, just because they are reluctant to move to a new, 
> unproven forum. Although, they might easily become resentful if they are 
> whitewashed as malcontents for just being cautious.

We didn't characterize them as resentful.  We said we want to prevent them from 
becoming resentful.  (At least I did, although I don't think it was in this 
thread.)  We certainly didn't characterize them as malcontents!

We're trying to find the best way to do this, but there's absolutely no way to 
find a solution that's perfect for everyone.  So we have to find the way that 
satisfies as many people as possible.  Individually, we will all get some things 
that we want, and we will all, not get some things that we want.

I think our biggest obstacle is lack of involvement by the people whom we don't 
want to become resentful.  We have been trying.

I also think that a mature, fully featured forum software would be the best case 
scenario.  But working within a community, as I said in the forum thread, we 
have to compromise.  That's what it means to be part of a community, in my 
experience.

If the project could find a qualified sysadmin, who could handle a php forum on 
the server side, it might be a different story.  (They also need to know 
Ansible.)  But as things are now, we don't have anyone who is well-versed with 
php.  To my understanding, that's why we're working towards the 
Django-integrated solution.  But I don't think finding a sysadmin is anywhere 
near the top of the priority list right now (not now that the push towards 
version 1.0 has started, and with 2 hackfests coming up).

Could we install a php forum anyway?  Yes.  Then what happens when the next PHP 
upgrade comes along?  Or some other changes on the server are needed, related to 
php?  The current web admin might not be able to handle it properly (in this 
case probably not).

At least, that's how I understand the situation, given my not-so-tech-savvy 
perspective.

In any case, I repeat.  We are trying to find a way to do this, that works for 
everyone as much as possible, and to prevent people from becoming resentful. 
But it's a hard road to go, when most of those people don't want to participate. 
We would love to hear from more InkscapeForum members!

All best,
brynn

PS - tl;dr
> Case in point, last year there were over 1700 users on the inkscapeforum.com 
> in a *single day*... that's about as many users as inkscapecommunity.com has 
> registered in *five years*.

That's not a fair comparison!  First of all, you're comparing apples to oranges. 
Second and most importantly, InkscapeForum.com has almost a complete lack of 
spam control currently.  (I mean programatically, not by moderation.)  As far as 
I know, all they have is a lame captcha, which bots can solve.  ("are you a 
bot?")  Virtually everyone who visits can register.

"Users" is everyone who visits, it's not new members and not logged in members. 
It's visitors.  After the last couple of years with little to no spam control 
(programatically) the site has probably become a magnet for bots.  A couple of 
automated bots could easily rack up 1700 visits in a day!

If you compare how many register to how many actually post a message, that might 
be an insightful comparison.  At least it weeds out free floating spammers.  And 
Inkscape Community probably has at least an equal percentage, and probably 
higher.  Regardless of registration, I think we handle an equal number of new 
messages, on average.

I'm not sure why you felt a need to say that.  I've always avoided comparing the 
forums.  But I had to clear up the meaning of those stats.  In the future, I 
hope we can avoid comparing them, and try to work towards combining them into 
one new forum, which is even better than the 2 current forums combined.  That's 
my goal, in any case.

brynn

PPS - If there are any further comparisons of the 2 forums, I won't be 
responding.  As I've said from the beginning, I want to see the 2 forums working 
side by side to provide support for Inkscape and not competing.  At least until 
the new forum opens, when Inkscape Community will be drastically reorganized, 
and traffic diverted to the new forum (as I have promised all along).


-----Original Message----- 
From: Tyler Durden
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2019 9:27 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?


It's inaccurate and unfair to characterize current inkscapeforum.com forum 
members as resentful, just because they are reluctant to move to a new, unproven 
forum. Although, they might easily become resentful if they are whitewashed as 
malcontents for just being cautious.

Comments above in this discussion indicate that a phpbb forum is a viable 
fallback... why not *start* with a working, familiar, platform that has 
experienced worldwide users/moderators/developers? (A separate login from 
inkscape.org has not been a problem at the inkscapeforum.com forum, so it is a 
weak argument to say it is a significant obstacle for a new forum.)  If the 
project installed a phpbb forum structured in the same manner & functionality as 
the current inkscapeforum.com, most active members would be amenable to moving. 
I certainly would. (Additional benefit would be the seamless integration of the 
old forum content, in the unlikely event the databases are provided.)  I don't 
see the overarching need to reinvent the wheel.

Current active users are vital to the success of a new forum. They attract new 
members by providing substantive contributions. Case in point, last year there 
were over 1700 users on the inkscapeforum.com in a *single day*... that's about 
as many users as inkscapecommunity.com has registered in *five years*.  I'm not 
saying the information at inkscapecommunity.com is inferior, but rather imagine 
if it had attracted more of the active group of users from inkscapeforum.com. 
As an active contributor of inkscapeforum.com, I can attest to >2200 posts, 
local folders reflecting assistance to >600 unique users,  dropbox folders 
containing uploads of gif, svg, screenshots, for about 300 unique users... And 
I'm a relative lightweight compared to some other active users.

The active users are participating at high levels for the love of Inkscape and 
its users. These are the anchors of the user community that attract and support 
new users. It might be wise to listen to what they have to say... not just in 
their comments, but in their reluctance to move away from what is currently 
working.

TL;DR
Don't brand us as resentful just because we are comfortable staying with a 
working platform. It's not resentment keeping active users at the old forum, 
it's functionality. When the new forum works as well or better than the current 
forum, active users like myself will be more open to moving.

Have a nice day.
TD