Re: Call for informal discussion: APNG
"Soni L." <[email protected]> Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:18:24 -0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.graphics.png.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1241729207266712954== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0A082A813CF40B63B7899DB5" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0A082A813CF40B63B7899DB5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If we do get a new APNG, can we get full image interlacing? As you know, in APNG, you can do interlacing to make each frame visible faster at a lower resolution, but EACH FRAME ONLY. The idea with full interlacing is that you'd interlace IDAT and fdAT, such that you can quickly load the whole APNG animation (at a lower resolution), and slowly get it up to high-res by loading the following chunks. On 2017-09-20 12:30 PM, Pavel Zlatovratskii wrote: > > I don't think approval of APNG could be any use for now. It was > important in 2007 to motivate browsers (and other software) support > it. But today it is already have pretty wide support as you describe, > so I see no reason to not left it as Mozilla's "side-standard". > > May be it's possible to design some new animation PNG based on APNG > and make it standard. Like SPDY and HTTP/2: Google design and spread > SPDY, but SDPY is now left as SPDY, not became HTTP2.0 nor was > approved by IETF HTTP WG. > > There is also a little problem with official APNG same as Mozilla > APNG: current decoders may not able to handle approved aCTL chunk as > it is supposed to handle private acTL chunk. So without any benefit > for aCTL it may be never spread. > > 15.09.2017 2:09, Chris Lilley пишет: >> My reason for re-opening discussion is the "implementation and >> testing" part. APNG has since become widespread. Compared to animated >> GIF, it offers 24bit (and 48bit!) colors rather than 256, and full >> transparency rather than binary opacity. >> >> Regardless of what we may think about the reduced capabilities >> relative to MNG, or the advisability of re-using an image type for >> animations, this is the current state of the world and it seems >> sub-optimal to me that the PNG specification and extensions documents >> continue to not reflect this. I would like therefore to kick off >> informal discussion, then a formal discussion period and (re)vote. >> >> APNG continues to be supported in Mozilla Firefox (and other apps >> using the Gecko rendering engine), starting from version 3, June 2008. >> >> APNG is supported by Safari (and other apps using the WebKit >> rendering engine) since version 8, October 2014. >> >> In addition, native apps on MacOS X and iOS use native support for >> APNG, since iOS 10 and OS X Yosemite, October 2014. >> >> APNG is now supported by Google Chrome (and other apps using the >> Blink rendering engine, such as Opera and Samsung Internet), starting >> from version 59, June 2017. >> >> Microsoft Edge does not support APNG, but MS Edge Devs stated that >> this is "under review". Meanwhile, APNG displays in Edge as the first >> frame, which is the expected fallback behavior. >> >> A starter document is attached to facilitate discussion. >> >> -- >> Chris Lilley >> @svgeesus >> Technical Director @ W3C >> W3C Strategy Team, Core Web Design >> W3C Architecture & Technology Team, Core Web & Media >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> png-mng-misc mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc > > -- > Have a nice DOS. > > Pavel Zlatovratskiiscondo-JGs/[email protected];[email protected] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > png-mng-misc mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc --------------0A082A813CF40B63B7899DB5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> If we do get a new APNG, can we get full image interlacing?<br> <br> As you know, in APNG, you can do interlacing to make each frame visible faster at a lower resolution, but EACH FRAME ONLY. The idea with full interlacing is that you'd interlace IDAT and fdAT, such that you can quickly load the whole APNG animation (at a lower resolution), and slowly get it up to high-res by loading the following chunks.<br> <br> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-09-20 12:30 PM, Pavel Zlatovratskii wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:ab199da1-004a-5f1c-843a-4f3dda06b755-o+MxOtu4lMCHXe+LvDLADg@public.gmane.org"> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <p>I don't think approval of APNG could be any use for now. It was important in 2007 to motivate browsers (and other software) support it. But today it is already have pretty wide support as you describe, so I see no reason to not left it as Mozilla's "side-standard". <br> </p> <p>May be it's possible to design some new animation PNG based on APNG and make it standard. Like SPDY and HTTP/2: Google design and spread SPDY, but SDPY is now left as SPDY, not became HTTP2.0 nor was approved by IETF HTTP WG.<br> </p> <p>There is also a little problem with official APNG same as Mozilla APNG: current decoders may not able to handle approved aCTL chunk as it is supposed to handle private acTL chunk. So without any benefit for aCTL it may be never spread.<br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">15.09.2017 2:09, Chris Lilley пишет:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:fa3adedb-5d2c-c892-4ae4-ef928270e542-Pl0VvzL1eo4@public.gmane.org" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> My reason for re-opening discussion is the "implementation and testing" part. APNG has since become widespread. Compared to animated GIF, it offers 24bit (and 48bit!) colors rather than 256, and full transparency rather than binary opacity.<br> <p>Regardless of what we may think about the reduced capabilities relative to MNG, or the advisability of re-using an image type for animations, this is the current state of the world and it seems sub-optimal to me that the PNG specification and extensions documents continue to not reflect this. I would like therefore to kick off informal discussion, then a formal discussion period and (re)vote.<br> </p> <p>APNG continues to be supported in Mozilla Firefox (and other apps using the Gecko rendering engine), starting from version 3, June 2008.</p> <p>APNG is supported by Safari (and other apps using the WebKit rendering engine) since version 8, October 2014.<br> </p> <p>In addition, native apps on MacOS X and iOS use native support for APNG, since iOS 10 and OS X Yosemite, October 2014.</p> <p>APNG is now supported by Google Chrome (and other apps using the Blink rendering engine, such as Opera and Samsung Internet), starting from version 59, June 2017.</p> <p>Microsoft Edge does not support APNG, but MS Edge Devs stated that this is "under review". Meanwhile, APNG displays in Edge as the first frame, which is the expected fallback behavior.</p> <p>A starter document is attached to facilitate discussion.<br> </p> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Chris Lilley @svgeesus Technical Director @ W3C W3C Strategy Team, Core Web Design W3C Architecture & Technology Team, Core Web & Media</pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sdm.link/slashdot" moz-do-not-send="true">http://sdm.link/slashdot</a></pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________ png-mng-misc mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Have a nice DOS. Pavel Zlatovratskii <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:scondo-JGs/[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true">scondo-JGs/[email protected]</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email protected]</a> </pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sdm.link/slashdot">http://sdm.link/slashdot</a></pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________ png-mng-misc mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------0A082A813CF40B63B7899DB5-- --===============1241729207266712954== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot --===============1241729207266712954== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ png-mng-misc mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/png-mng-misc --===============1241729207266712954==--