Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

On Monday 17 January 2005 13:51, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
> On Monday 17. January 2005 11:15, JP Dinger wrote:
> > Which was kind-of his point. A pity you now too seem to prefer a list
> > without subscribers over one carrying actual discussion, which I, and
> > seemingly others, thought it was created for. Ah well.
>
> I just joined this list a week or so ago, and
> most of what I've had the "pleasure" of seeing are these sorts of posts
> where all you can do is whine about what gets posted.

It's been like this the whole year.  Truth is, the "cabal" of Y isn't hiding 
anything from us.  They have said many times that everything is public and 
everyone sees the same code.  But, by custom and by ownership, they hold the 
keys to the project.  If they said something about a rewrite a looong looong 
time ago, then that is what everyone's been waiting for and expecting.

> Maybe some developers are too quiet, maybe they are overly busy with other
> things.  Who cares?  If people asking how they can help are truly being
> told to piss off...which I am guessing is an exaggeration...then that's a
> problem for the list maintainers to address.

In practice it is not an exaggeration.  The "cabal" (I think that is Andrew 
and Mark) has refused to communicate about the details, or at least Andrew's 
style has been so discouraging that nobody has ever tried.

And if the list maintainers are "the problem", sitting on the project and 
living their lives as if it didn't exist, then who are you gonna call?

> If you want to work on something, post about it.  After you've finished it,
> post about it.

Only to hear that the code is useless, because the Y, as far as it was done, 
is going to be scrapped for a second try.

> If you are in a bad mood about the content nobody is 
> forcing you to read, then kindly route your message to /dev/null and have a
> nice day instead of bothering all the subscribers

The "whiners" are not some annoying minority, preventing all constructive work 
and discussion.  They are the disillusioned majority that is calling for 
discussion and constructive work.  Do a second round of "who are you with and 
who are you against."  Or maybe there is nobody left to be against.  People 
are just announcing they found out the fate of this.

Now that it's clear there hasn't been any rewrite, the project either dies or 
everyone starts coding for the Y that now exists, even if it desperately 
needs the redesign and rewrite.

> This
> constant back-and-forth bickering and silly mock threat commentary about
> leaving the list and so on is completely ridiculous and childish.

It is not constant.  It probably started a moment before you joined.  People 
are doing it after having high hopes for almost a year or so.  And it is 
based on good, mature and factual disappointment.

By talking about a disappointment I'm not implying that Andrew or Mark were 
some kind of hucksters that misled anyone.  I think all this was basically a 
misunderstanding about the rewrite of the whole Y.

> Please don't respond to this email.  Just let this thread die.  If you wish
> to flame, kindly do so privately.

This thread is the most mature, serious, necessary and the most 
problem-solving thread this list has ever seen, and nobody's going to kill 
it.

-Kimmo S.