Re: Quick question... Is this project dead?!

On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 08:12:27PM +0200, Kimmo Sundqvist wrote:
> > Maybe some developers are too quiet, maybe they are overly busy with other
> > things.  Who cares?  If people asking how they can help are truly being
> > told to piss off...which I am guessing is an exaggeration...then that's a
> > problem for the list maintainers to address.
> 
> In practice it is not an exaggeration.  The "cabal" (I think that is Andrew 
> and Mark) has refused to communicate about the details, or at least Andrew's 
> style has been so discouraging that nobody has ever tried.

That's far from accurate; I've had about half a dozen people asking
specific, relevant questions that led into reasonably detailed
discussions of approaches to various components of the system over the
past few months. Mostly via IRC and private mail, and that's probably
because any attempt to do so on this list results in a huge mob of
hangers-on weighing in with their own worthless and misguided
opinions.

On the other hand, if your questions are something like:

 - What can I do?
 - Can I have access to CVS?
 - When can I run Mozilla under Y?
 - Will Y merge with (platform-independent toolkit / desktop
   environment)? (?!)

Then you are clearly clueless and *should* be discouraged. (All of
those were real questions; the last one I've seen multiple times in
various forms)

> > If you are in a bad mood about the content nobody is 
> > forcing you to read, then kindly route your message to /dev/null and have a
> > nice day instead of bothering all the subscribers
> 
> The "whiners" are not some annoying minority, preventing all constructive work 
> and discussion.  They are the disillusioned majority that is calling for 
> discussion and constructive work.

While simultaneously not doing either, and that says more than anything else.

> > This
> > constant back-and-forth bickering and silly mock threat commentary about
> > leaving the list and so on is completely ridiculous and childish.
> 
> It is not constant.  It probably started a moment before you joined.  People 
> are doing it after having high hopes for almost a year or so.  And it is 
> based on good, mature and factual disappointment.
> 
> By talking about a disappointment I'm not implying that Andrew or Mark were 
> some kind of hucksters that misled anyone.  I think all this was basically a 
> misunderstanding about the rewrite of the whole Y.

Good grief, we've been *trying* to hammer the point home for
months. With *big* hammers.

This is not a mature project. This will take a long time. At present
it is being changed from a prototype to a real-world application. That
means it is not yet a real-world application.

For some reason, certain people have refused to pay any attention and
continue spouting the same nonsense.

Just because you see something on slashdot doesn't mean it's true. In
fact, it means it's probably not true.

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
 `. `'                          |
   `-             -><-          |

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