Re: Building a new home for GPE

Hi Nils,

I can't speak for other posters, nor am I aware of the issues involved
in moving any of the other projects you mention. I can only say that
although I've not contributed to GPE yet, I'd hate to see any reduction
in it's development, particularly due to a fork/split/division of sub-
projects. As long as the discussion is civil (rather than emotive;) I'd
also regard a long discussion as (potentially) "fruitful" rather than
a "severe debate", but I digress ;)

Thanks for the explanation of "the history of alternative hosting".
It helps me to understand more about why/how this has happened and how
the ltg team has arrived at it's current state. Judging by the look of
the site, it would seem like a good start. In a way, though, it makes
me wonder why, apart from what seems like a personal conflict, all the
effort put into ltg could not have been more productively spent on
improving hh.org for all ... but that's probably not the point now :).

Regarding the speed of OE and Angstrom moving, vs GPE, my guess is that
it's probably related the age of GPE and its contributors? As I get older
(hmmm... now 35.. no 36 ... err forget that 37!), apart from losing count,
I've found it harder to accept sudden changes, even if I'm not completely
happy with the current state of things ... maybe that's just me ;)

Your bottom-line also seems attractive in a lot of ways ;)
(you can put it away now;)

OK, so do you mind if I ask about the hypothetical move of a project?
Let's take my little toy for example:
	http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/RamdiskRescue
I have the wiki documentation on hh.org, the source in svn on sf.net,
and the build scripts running on my home server (also in svn) uploading
images as they change to my ISPs personal webspace.
Are you suggesting that I can combine all these things by *cough*
moving (perhaps co-hosting sounds better?:) my project to ltg?

[ 2nd power outage today from bushfires ... at least I didn't lose
   the mbr on my 160GB drive this time, and thunderbird saves my drafts ;]

That should do me for now, too tired to continue (or remember the rest
of the original draft).

Thanks for your detailed response.

Regards,

Marcus.


Nils Faerber wrote:
> Marcus Brown schrieb:
>> Hi Florian,
> Hello Marcus!
> 
> Since I also have some words to say about this I do also reply...
> 
>> Your mail seems to suggest that you have neither the patience to wait for
>> members of the list to respond to the OP, nor the skills to negotiate a
>> solution that will please all. IMHO these traits will be necessary for the
>> project to survive the move you are suggesting.
> 
> Well... we all have our bad moods from time to time.
> 
> But it is a matter of fact that many other projects did similar things
> like we intend to and none of them suffered from such a severe debate. I
> really wonder why this is.
> 
>> In addition to my recent post to the Reminder thread:
>>  - why does GPE need to move?
>>  - why can't the "missing" service(s), ie. SVN, be installed/used on
>> hh.org?
> 
> Actually as of today the pressing need is partially resolved.
> 
> At the time we were starting to think about creating a new platform and
> proposing to move GPE there too, hh.org had continuing severe technical
> problems - starting with lame servers, false configs, unresponsiveness
> of mailinglists, etc, etc. This made our day to day work on projects
> located on hh.org very hard.
> 
> I have full understanding for what George had to do and is still doing.
> And I am sure he did his very best to solve the problems but as a matter
> of fact, through months and months the situation continued and even got
> worse.
> 
> At that time, this is now about 1/2 a year ago (!) we thought if we
> could not create a solution on our own - if we fail then it was at least
> our fault and we would have to blame ourselves. So we collected offers
> for server hosting and found a reasonable offer and simply rented that
> server.
> Then we tried to install the needed tools like webserver, GForge,
> mailinglists, Drupal, etc. etc. and it turned out to work pretty well!
> And, sorry to say so, it worked much better than hh.org at that time.
> 
> So the alternative hosting looked very promising!
> 
> And even more, we were now able to install any server software we liked
> without having to ask a single person to handle all the work - at LTG we
> are ATM three/four people having permissions to do administration and
> everyone who likes to can join the team as long as he/she has some
> credibility to do so.
> 
> Other projects heard about it, namely OpenEmbedded and Angstrom, and
> quickly decided to join. For some reason their developer community was
> less sceptical than ours and so their move was quick and without much fuss.
> 
> We proposed the move of GPE first time something like two months ago?
> There was enough time for questions, debate or explanations I think. But
> in this two months nothing happened.
> Just now as I posted the reminder, the same discussion starts all over
> again.
> 
> That we have to go through all of this again and again every two months
> is tiring since the questions and answers are all the same.
> 
> So buttomline my personal reasons for the move are:
> - more open administration of the hosting platform - basically anyone
> can join the admin team (given the others trust that person)
> - much easier project administration, can be done by more people through
> the GForge project page
> - more possibilities for the project - e.g. if we like to create an
> auto-builder we can do that, etc.
> 
> 
> And I can only say it again and again and again:
> 
> 	There is no evil plot in here!
> 
> This was thought about about half a year ago! Some of the needs are not
> valid anymore, OK. But some others are still valid like more freedom in
> the platform. And that alone is already quite important for me - personally.
> 
> Everyone can get an account on LTG within an instant and can almost
> instantly join any project - try to find how this is supposed to work on
> hh.org... it is not at all that easy.
> 
> 
> If you have the chance to enhance your possibilities, who wouldn't?
> 
>> Marcus.
> Cheers
>   nils
> 
>