Re: [HS] Re: WP7 Version

Ah. Well, I think you made some assumptions about HandyShopper 
compatability that weren't entirely accurate. Chris didn't make the 
database format public just to tease people. He WANTS people to develop 
apps that use the database. At least, that's how I understand it. Sure, 
calling it "HandyShopper" would be a bad idea, as your previously quoted 
messages detail, but Chris was being downright helpful so that you could 
be successful. Too bad yours is "just another" list app that takes a 
converted HS database and drops most of the data. Too bad for people 
like me, that is, who use HandyShopper BECAUSE of all those "extra" 
things. Simple list apps abound on windows and android markets, 
including many that can import csv and/or flat files of some kind. I 
guess if one has no choice, then they have no choice, though.

I strongly recommend at least trying to keep the Note data. Negative 
prices might seem like a strange thing for a shopping list app, but that 
function is one of the things that helped people make HandyShopper so 
much more useful than "just" a shopping list app. If you can work that 
in there, then I can't see how it would be a bad thing. Honestly, making 
it as much like HandyShopper as you can is not something to avoid, it's 
something to strive for.
Is HandyShopper perfect? Nothing is truly perfect, but HandyShopper is 
as near perfect as any list app I've ever used.
If I had a WP7 phone, I'd surely try your app out... if there was a way 
to. I saw that it wasn't free. Is there a way to test it prior to 
paying? I never buy an app untested, and I'm sure there are many WP7 
users like me.

I love my Android phone.... but I still use my Palm for HandyShopper.

-Greg

robmikedad wrote:

>The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully import the data directly from the PDB database.  I suspect that by not importing the full PDB, there is much that I missed.
>
>The data that is imported are: Description, need, units, quantity, price, tax, category, aisle, stores, and priority.
>
>This is also true for the CSV import -- the same fields are imported.
>
>Regarding its functionality, while I had originally thought about developing HandyShopper for WP7, I realized that 1) in order to get the application released in a timely manner, I wouldn't be able to do everything, 2) since I couldn't do everything, I had no way of knowing which features were important to everyone so that I could prioritize and try to get them included, and 3) HandyShopper is copywrited by Chris.  I believe for me to make a duplicate of HandyShopper would violate that copywrite.
>
>I can't tell you what my app doesn't do in relation to HandyShopper because I never did a full analysis of it (for the reasons I stated above).  The easiest way to see what my app can do is to read the User Guide.
>
>Regarding negative prices, I can't think of anything in the application to prevent them.  It's just that the keyboard that is displayed shows only numeric values -- no negative sign.  I'm getting ready to release version 1.1, which will include a few bug fixes, along with language support for French, German, and Spanish.  I can take a look at adding negative price support.
>
>Chuck
>
>--- In [email protected], Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...> wrote:
>  
>
>> From the web site:
>>
>>- Multi-database
>>- Multiple shopping lists per database
>>- Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
>>- Filter by Category and/or Store
>>- Searchable
>>- PC Upload/download 
>>- Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
>>- Multi-language
>>- 600+ Item built-in database
>>
>>Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at: https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c&sc=documents
>>    
>>
>>
>>Good job, Chuck!
>>Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes place 
>>during HandyShopper list import?
>>One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android list 
>>apps is that none of them support some important aspects of HandyShopper 
>>lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is 
>>anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.
>>
>>-Greg
>>
>>robmikedad wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace.  Here's the link:  http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>--- In [email protected], "robmikedad" <chuck@> wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Update:  Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application.  I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system.  I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available.  "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
>>>>
>>>>Chuck
>>>>
>>>>--- In [email protected], "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on 
>>>>>WP7!!  The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform?  I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--- In [email protected], "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun!  Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available.  There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection -  http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
>>>>>>To: [email protected]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
>>>>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
>>>>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
>>>>>>>to infringe.
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
>>>>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from you.
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>
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