Re: Sorry, but: Sync Stinks

Hi Ned,

Thanks very much for that link, I had thought there was something like 
that out there, and I would have had to hunt it down myself if you hadn't 
sent it to me.

I had looked for it a month or two ago for work, but I hadn't been able to 
find anything useful.

Anyway, something like that should be perfect for syncing Progect stuff 
once I can get it to store as XML.


My hope is that by using XML as the disk format, people can pick and 
choose what Progect desktop editor they want to use. Although PDesk (or a 
direct replacement) may always be the best for editing Progect files, 
there are many times when someone wants to edit Progect things with 
something else like their favourite outline processor or say MS 
Project.

Also, if you want to convert it to HTML or publish it to DOCBOOK it's just 
so much easier if you can start with XML.

You know, the whole power to the people thing.


The only fallout will be that I will most likely have to replace PDesk 
with something designed for XML from the beginning.

I am working on a new outline processor that will allow people to create 
plugins. The reason is so that Progect and the new PDesk will be 
expandable to do what people want it to do without Progect/PDesk 
development being the bottleneck, or at least it will be modular so that 
it can stay bug-free while it gets more complex.

Of course, I'm very busy at work as usual, so it's taking a long time.

My goal is to get the XML conduit going first so that people are free to 
do what they want with their data.

The second stage is to get the new outliner working well enough that 
people can comment on it.

The final stage would be a rewrite of Progect so that it can handle 
plugins.

Rick


On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Ned Konz wrote:

> Rick Price wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006, "Alex Wenzel" wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, it's me *again*. But probably for the last time now.
>>>
>>
>> I'm glad to see that has not happened.
>>
>>> I'm sorry to say that, but PDesk's hotsync is a piece of completely
>>> broken crap.
>>
>> There is no question it needs improvement, I am working on making it work
>> with XML rather than binary, but I will also try recompiling the current
>> conduit code to see if that makes a difference.
>>
>
> You know, there's XMLDiff available; it might be part of an answer for
> synchronization. That and Pilot-link (or coldsync) (so those of us who
> don't use windows can manage to sync).
>
> XMLDiff (Python)
> http://www.logilab.org/projects/xmldiff
>
> XMLDiff (Perl; could use this with a sync framework using Perl):
> http://software.decisionsoft.com/tools.html
>
>> If you can reliably make the conduit mess things up, please send me a
>> repeat-by, I have never been able to make it destroy a project when I
>> wanted it to.
>>
>> Just when I really didn't want it to...
>>
>>> I absolutely understand that it's difficult to sync when there are
>>> changes for the same item on both sides or maybe if an item is moved
>>> in the tree on one side.
>>> But you do *not* have to do simultaneous changes or move an item to
>>> get a duplicate afterwards.
>>> Every sync easily gave me *tons* of duplicates. Change a task priority
>>> on on the desktop, and you'll get a duplicate on the next sync.
>>> Not even perfect duplicates but hard-to-find-out ones. Sometimes it
>>> lost notes in the syncing process. Or I got a single (progress) task
>>> with the note, but without the subtasks and another without the note,
>>> but with the subtasks. But usually, for a task with a note I got a
>>> second one without the note. Or without the due date. Change the
>>> description of a task with subtasks, and you get a new single task
>>> with the new description, and another one with subtasks, but with the
>>> old description. Actually, it sometimes stubbornly refuses to accept
>>> changes for tasks with subtasks at all.
>>
>> If you could document the ways you have found to make it mess up, there is
>> a fighting chance we can fix it.
>>
>> Starting with a reasonably small project, can you document the ways to
>> make it mess up?
>>
>> If it requires a larger project so be it, but I have not been able to
>> reliably cause it to mess up.
>>
>>> Please note that the outline was *only* ever changed on the desktop,
>>> it wasn't edited at all on the handheld.
>>>
>>> And then I went "back" to 0.8.5 from Beta 7 to which I downgraded
>>> before, but it didn't get any better. Add a note to a single task, get
>>> a duplicate (without note) on the next sync. Delete two duplicates,
>>> get one back. Try to change the description of a task with subtasks,
>>> maybe it will sync on the third try. But you'll get an additional one.
>>> Man, this was meant to be a project with about 100 subtasks. I don't
>>> think I can stand that.
>>>
>>
>> PDesk also seems to have issues, I am working on rewriting it.
>>
>> In fact, since you seem to know what you want, would you have time to try
>> out the new version at some point?
>>
>> I would like to know how people find the new version, although it is not
>> at all ready for prime time yet.
>>
>>> And you can't even set the sync to overwrite handheld or desktop, like
>>> with other conduits, which would be sufficient in my case. At this
>>> state, it would be better to forget the sync of individual items
>>> altogether and give users a mode to overwrite the files either on the
>>> desktop or the handheld.
>>
>> Yes, that is an annoying ommission.
>>
>>> So, before you do *anything* else, please fix the broken sync. What
>>> else is a desktop "companion" good for than to let you conveniently
>>> edit the outline and sync to the handheld?
>>>
>>> BTW: This is on Windows NT 4 SP6a , but I don't think that that
>>> matters. And the behaviour of the GUI isn't better than it was on W2k.
>>>
>>
>> The OS version AFAIK does not matter, although I have only had it cause
>> problems very infrequently. Basically I can't reproduce the problem, and
>> therefore it's very hard to fix.
>>
>>> Oh, and when I opened one of my old
>> outlines, I remembered (because
>> I > saw it again) that a sync had added due dates to undated tasks (i.e to
>>> half of my outline) way back then. That was Beta 6, but things don't
>>> seem to have improved.
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Remember to visit Polls, Files and Bookmarks sections at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/progect. You are welcome to vote, upload your files and submit bookmarks.
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Ned Konz
> [email protected]
> http://bike-nomad.com
>


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