RE: Re: Need help understanding desktop/handheld relationship

I back up to SD cards, but am far less disciplined with my Treo than I was
with my Tungstens (bad habits creep in, but that's a failure of character,
not the fault of Palm).  If my Treo crashed I would do as you would, but
with poorer results due to my bad habits.  However, I would have up-to-date
calendar, contacts, and e-mail once I had data connectivity.

 

I said I don't HotSync while traveling; I do keep ActiveSync operating to
get those calendar updates you mentioned (and e-mails & contacts).

 

 

David

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Bert Latamore
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Need help understanding desktop/handheld
relationship

 

David,

To answer a couple of your questions with questions: What would you do if
you were flying to the coast and got out your Treo to check your schedule
and see what you are supposed to do when you land, but your Treo has done a
hard reset? I guess you wait until you land and can turn the cellular radio
back on. I would simply copy everything back into my T3 from the SD.

And you say you never update your Treo when on a trip. What happens if your
admin changes your schedule for the next day in Outlook? Do you show up at
the wrong place? I would think this is exactly why you want your calendar on
your smartphone -- to update your calendar when you are away from your desk
and have your laptop shut down. Otherwise why bother?

BTW, personally I do daily backups of my PDA to SD cards (one of which I
keep separate from the PDA/case just in case i lose the unit) daily, as well
as a daily hot sync. If I could also do a backup to the Cloud I would
certianl ydo that (not an option with the T3, unfortunately). Actually I
should look into that for my "next generation" PDA which is a Vaio UX
running Vista. That certainly has connectivity, unlike the T3.

Bert Latamore
Freelance Editorial Consultant

________________________________
From: David Erlenborn <[email protected] <mailto:david%40erlenborn.com> >
To: [email protected] <mailto:shadow-discuss%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:07:35 PM
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Need help understanding desktop/handheld
relationship

Do you actually know that there is an "overdependence" on the Cloud inherent
in WebOS? I haven't seen anything yet that says the Pre will run everything
from the Cloud. The Pre doesn't look like a handheld browser to me; it
looks like a handheld web server. I haven't seen enough details, so I may
be naïve - but I assume the application developers will be intelligent about
where they locate data.

My Treo's calendar and e-mail data is synced with Exchange whenever I have
connectivity, but I can still work with it while offline. I don't need to
"backup" my calendar or e-mail; it's in Exchange and gets restored to my
Treo by Exchange in the event of a hard reset. Other data can be managed in
a similar way. When I used Tungstens my data was as fresh as my last
HotSync. With my Treo it is much fresher. I never HotSynced my Tungstens
while traveling, so your examples of loss of connectivity don't necessarily
make a WebOS device less useful. I would hope that the applications would
allow me to work off local data that will be synced once I have connectivity
- just like Exchange.

Bert, you may know more about the WebOS applications than I do. I should
probably just shut up until I learn more; I'll probably be proven wrong and
look like an idiot. It just seems that a pure, Cloud-based device wouldn't
need an SDK or 8 GB of memory. It would just need a fast, modern browser.

David

From: shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups.
com]
On Behalf Of Bert Latamore
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:15 AM
To: shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Need help understanding desktop/handheld
relationship

Yes, I don't like the overdependence on the Cloud. What happens when you
have no connectivity to the Internet? For isntance, when you are on a long
business flight or are out camping in a National Forest (both very relaistic
situations for me). How much basic functionality do you lose? Do you need
connectivity for instance to see your calendar or to update it? Obviously
you would not be able to make a backup of anything, and if you had a full
reset and lost your datda you would not be able to reload it.

I actually work in the area of cloud computing, and I believe that things
like SAAS are the future of IT. But I also know that I need some things to
stay local and be available under all circumstances, and those things do not
belong on the Cloud.

Bert Latamore
Freelance Editorial Consultant

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Ken Latham <clatham1@tampabay. rr.com
<mailto:clatham1% 40tampabay. rr.com> >
To: shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:shadow- discuss%40yahoog
roups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:36:48 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Need help understanding desktop/handheld
relationship

I'll agree the Pre looks like a very useable, yet appealing, device. 
And its got a great deal more going for it than the G1 I was
considering (and thankfully did not jump on).

The one thing that worries me is the developer environment. I mean,
come on! HTML, CSS, and *Javascript* ! Have you ever tried writing
anything complex in Javascript ... its a nightmare. No type checking,
none. Sounds controllable to the rigorous programmer, at first, but
the level of error checking necessary for large apps is horrendous,
and debugging is, well, endless.

They really need something close to full Java, not just the scripting
language.

That, and they need a local alternative to the cloud. The way it is
now, they're locking the device down to nothing more than "a hole into
which you throw air time".

So, unless either air-time suddenly becomes dirt cheap, or Palm backs
down from their "cloud device" mentality ...

Ahem ... in my *humble* opinion. ;)

Ken

--- In shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, Jeff Mitchell <skeezix@... > wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Mark Einersen wrote:
> 
> # BTW, the new Palm does look yummy, doesn't it? :)
> 
> Its great to see some positivity .. all these years where Palm 
> didn't really move much made us devs take a real beating, and why most 
> jumped ship. Suddenly, everyone is beaming about possibilities.
> 
> The Pre looks fantastic; the OS looks really sharp. We'll see if 
> they come and bring a strong app store design and good developer
tools.. 
> they need that. So far, devs have no more info than everyone else.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to it. Call me a Palm guy, but I'm 
> rooting for them!
> 
> jeff
> 
> # 
> # Thanks so much!
> # Mark
> # 
> # --- In shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, Jeff Mitchell <skeezix@> wrote:
> # >
> # > On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Mark Einersen wrote:
> # > 
> # > # I think I know the correct dir from #2 below: "Refreshing outline
> # > # directory" (DUH!). Still wondering how/if I can change it, as
well as
> # > # the answers to the others questions.
> # > 
> # > In a rush right now, but .. If I recall right (remember, I've got 
> # > not much sleep the last 2 years ;), the latest File -> Open should
> # be used 
> # > for the index, but I could be wrong there.
> # > 
> # > (Also watch.. www.palminfocenter. com and www.engadget. com and 
> # > others are live blogging the new Palm OS device and OS ... *yummy*)
> # > 
> # > jeff
> # > 
> # > # 
> # > # Thx!
> # > # Mark
> # > # 
> # > # --- In shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark Einersen"
<me.me@> wrote:
> # > # >
> # > # > Thanks for your reply, Jeff. Just to make sure I understand
> # correctly...
> # > # > 
> # > # > 1. I could keep all my outlines on a memory card on the HH side.
> # Then
> # > # > when I want to edit them I could simply insert the card into my
> # PC and
> # > # > "Open raw..." directly from the card? I guess the only
> # disadvantage of
> # > # > this scenario is that I would NOT be able to categorize the
outlines
> # > # > on the HH, correct?
> # > # > 
> # > # > 2. When I look at the info in the Expert console, where
should the
> # > # > index be looking? Can I change this path or is it automatically
> # set? I
> # > # > see the following path descriptions:
> # > # > 
> # > # > -Registration file path
> # > # > -Filter file path
> # > # > -Tag file path
> # > # > -Refreshing outline directory
> # > # > 
> # > # > 3. Should the path that the index is looking for be the location
> # where
> # > # > I store the corresponding files I have on my HH? If so, how do I
> # make
> # > # > that the default location where they are stored upon sync (or at
> # least
> # > # > how do I get the HH files to sync to the corresponding files in
> # the DT
> # > # > directory)?
> # > # > 
> # > # > 4. Theoretically, I should "Open..." the same directly that the
> # index
> # > # > is looking for, right (at least on a "normal" basis)?
> # > # > 
> # > # > Thanks again! This is very helpful.
> # > # > Mark
> # > # > 
> # > # > --- In shadow-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, Jeff Mitchell <skeezix@>
> # wrote:
> # > # > >
> # > # > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Mark Einersen wrote:
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > # 1. Am I correct that files on my memory card have NO
ASSOCIATION
> # > # > > # whatsoever with what is backed up on and/or synced with the
> # desktop?
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > More-or-less correct; there was a time when I had planned to
> # have 
> # > # > > the desktop do some really tricky things so you could edit
files
> # > # on the 
> # > # > > card after hotsync, but in the end.. devices started to get a
> # lot of
> # > # > RAM, 
> # > # > > Palm made the tricky stuff really buggy to pull off, and I
added
> # > # > Open Raw 
> # > # > > which would let you edit the card-side files directly (via
a USB
> # > # flash 
> # > # > > reader say, or mounting the files via the Palm evice as a card
> # > # reader, 
> # > # > > etc.)
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > So to sync it is easiest to keep files in RAM.
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > # 3. On the DT my visual list of outlines shows 8 outlines,
> # > # including a
> # > # > > # new one I created a couple weeks ago that appears to
have been
> # > # synced
> # > # > > # properly onto my HH. Yet when I choose "Open..." I see a
> # list of 10
> # > # > > # outlines (8 are the same as what I see on the DT UI, plus
> # two others
> # > # > > # that I have previously used). Why?
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > Could check the Exprt -> Console option and read through
(its 
> # > # > > cryptic) to see where it is looking.. essentially, the
left-side
> # > # index 
> # > # > > shows from one directory the files it could find; the Open
> # could be 
> # > # > > looking in another place (it tries to remember the last palced
> # you've 
> # > # > > opened a file, and you could have opened somewhere else).
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > The DT can open files anyplace on your computer, the trick is
> # what 
> # > # > > it is showing in the index and File -> Open.
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > # 4. I have also created a "test" outline on the HH and
upon sync
> # > # it is
> # > # > > # not visible in EITHER of the aforementioned list of files.
> # However, 
> # > # > > # when I click on the last outline listed on the DT UI, it
> # opens the
> # > # > > # "test" list--although it is an old outline with a totally
> # different
> # > # > > # name!! What the heck?
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > Simialr to (3). Theres probably a mixup of where it is
seeing. 
> # > # > > (Which could also be complicated by some of Vista's odd
> # > # behaviours, if 
> # > # > > you're using that OS.)
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > # 5. When on choose "Open raw..." all I see are 3 files, all
> # three of
> # > # > > # which are presently in internal memory on the HH (other
> # files with
> # > # > > # corresponding names on the DT are presently on my HH memory
> # card).
> # > # > > # When/why would I want to open/modify on the DT a "raw" file
> # > # (PDB) vs.
> # > # > > # a "normal" file (XML)?
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > Open Raw is provided for those who need it, but it is
generally 
> # > # > > not needed much for Windows users. (It is mostly used by
Mac and
> # > # Linux 
> # > # > > users, or Windows folks who need to recover based on a pdb
file,
> # > # or who 
> # > # > > want to edit on an SD card, or other crazy tricks :)
Generally the
> # > # XML 
> # > # > > file is the way to go, but as always.. I like to provide
tools so
> # > # > people 
> # > # > > can work how they see fit.
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > jeff
> # > # > > 
> # > # > > --
> # > # > > If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there
would be
> # > # > no war.
> # > # > >
> # > # >
> # > # 
> # > # 
> # > # 
> # > # ------------ --------- --------- ------
> # > # 
> # > # Yahoo! Groups Links
> # > # 
> # > # 
> # > # 
> # > # 
> # > 
> # > --
> # > If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be
> # no war.
> # >
> # 
> # 
> # 
> # ------------ --------- --------- ------
> # 
> # Yahoo! Groups Links
> # 
> # 
> # 
> # 
> 
> --
> If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be
no war.
>

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