Re: Re: Anyone still here?
"skeezix [email protected] [SHADOW-DISCUSS]" <[email protected]> Sun, 4 Sep 2016 19:57:30 -0400 (EDT)
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.handhelds.palm.shadow |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--CMn9EFmYAhzKaPasbrbMBHJfjuEvDvNPFAXTQH1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 4 Sep 2016, [email protected] [SHADOW-DISCUSS] wrote: # Yup, still here. You have no idea how many outliners and task lists I've tried. You've spoiled them all for me :) . (me too, I've tried on a few ;) # Shadow was amazing because it had condensed outlines with columns, dates, times, "next task" behavior, great performance, and a whole slew of other # totally optional but occasionally useful features. It's impossible to find something like that today. At the time I was trying to go for a bit of 'hypercard' type functionality (MS Access etc), but withotu any UI complexity; just turn on or off columns as you needed, and then we blended into items having their own type instead of list-types and things got nutty :) One of the core questions that comes to mind today is .. if we made a new application, would it be a standalone (easier), or just a shell with tentacles into everything else (harder, since you have to deal with everything elses issues/features/limits); ie: Would a list be a standalone list, or even part of a giant list-database so that its all interconnected? Or would a list just be links into (say) iOS Tasks, Calendar, Notes, etc? (Memories of DateBook on PalmOS, where the normal Palm calendar would have comments and symbols at the end, that meant somethign to DB :)) As mentioned.. Shadow was huge, and did a lot, but it didn't always do those things; it started small and tight and general purpose, and evolved as we needed. If a new app was started, it would also have to start small .. but could starting small satisfy enough people to make it work? A standalone app would be much easier to put together; if it was standalone, with a relatively simple metaphor (ie: like Shadow was before), it wouldn't be so hard (easier to write nowadays than before, but much higher competition, and of course.. 'swooshfactor' needing, which I can't do; I'm just not a graphical guy ;) # Its real strength was that it was flexible and NOT opinionated. # Everything out there today is judgmental. You're "supposed to" manage # your tasks this way or that, or they refuse to add time support, or it's # just an outliner and no more (which is supposed to be a good thing), or # it's designed for project management and not personal tasks, or it's for # groups as opposed to individuals, or they don't have good mobile support # and aren't really interested in adding it, etc. You've hit the nail on the head for me as well; I'm anti-authoritarian enough to dislike be pished in some way.. I want apps to work for me, my way. Most people don't care (witness thigns like Facebook trying to replace messaging and email, because we all like our email as 4" wide columns in our 20" monitors instead of using our preferred client.....), but _I_ care, and that was my niche. I never intended Shadow to be #1 (we did pretty well though ;), but aimed just to carve its niche and see how it went.. # Your approach, on the other hand, was to listen to your customers. You # struck such a great balance between a powerful feature-rich outliner and # an app that was easy to use. I'm still yearning for the return of the # Shadow. I'm not saying anything here, but, it often comes to mind. I've gotten a fair amount of email over the years and of late (A half dozen in the last few weeks!), so its making me curious enough to poke the bear a little. My time is very rough, but if we could define something tight and small and doable, I could consider making a go of it. .. sigh, I too have missed this group, but you guys were demons to keep up with ;) jeff -- If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be no war. --CMn9EFmYAhzKaPasbrbMBHJfjuEvDvNPFAXTQH1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p>On Sun, 4 Sep 2016, [email protected] [SHADOW-DISCUSS] wrote:<br> <br> # Yup, still here. You have no idea how many outliners and task lists I've tried. You've spoiled them all for me :) .<br> <br> (me too, I've tried on a few ;)<br> <br> # Shadow was amazing because it had condensed outlines with columns, dates, times, "next task" behavior, great performance, and a whole slew of other<br> # totally optional but occasionally useful features. It's impossible to find something like that today.<br> <br> At the time I was trying to go for a bit of 'hypercard' type <br> functionality (MS Access etc), but withotu any UI complexity; just turn on <br> or off columns as you needed, and then we blended into items having their <br> own type instead of list-types and things got nutty :)<br> <br> One of the core questions that comes to mind today is .. if we <br> made a new application, would it be a standalone (easier), or just a shell <br> with tentacles into everything else (harder, since you have to deal with <br> everything elses issues/features/limits); ie: Would a list be a standalone <br> list, or even part of a giant list-database so that its all <br> interconnected? Or would a list just be links into (say) iOS Tasks, <br> Calendar, Notes, etc? (Memories of DateBook on PalmOS, where the normal <br> Palm calendar would have comments and symbols at the end, that meant <br> somethign to DB :))<br> <br> As mentioned.. Shadow was huge, and did a lot, but it didn't <br> always do those things; it started small and tight and general purpose, <br> and evolved as we needed. If a new app was started, it would also have to <br> start small .. but could starting small satisfy enough people to make it <br> work?<br> <br> A standalone app would be much easier to put together; if it was <br> standalone, with a relatively simple metaphor (ie: like Shadow was <br> before), it wouldn't be so hard (easier to write nowadays than before, but <br> much higher competition, and of course.. 'swooshfactor' needing, which I <br> can't do; I'm just not a graphical guy ;)<br> <br> # Its real strength was that it was flexible and NOT opinionated. <br> # Everything out there today is judgmental. You're "supposed to" manage <br> # your tasks this way or that, or they refuse to add time support, or it's <br> # just an outliner and no more (which is supposed to be a good thing), or <br> # it's designed for project management and not personal tasks, or it's for <br> # groups as opposed to individuals, or they don't have good mobile support <br> # and aren't really interested in adding it, etc.<br> <br> You've hit the nail on the head for me as well; I'm <br> anti-authoritarian enough to dislike be pished in some way.. I want apps <br> to work for me, my way. Most people don't care (witness thigns like <br> Facebook trying to replace messaging and email, because we all like our <br> email as 4" wide columns in our 20" monitors instead of using our <br> preferred client.....), but _I_ care, and that was my niche. I never <br> intended Shadow to be #1 (we did pretty well though ;), but aimed just to <br> carve its niche and see how it went..<br> <br> # Your approach, on the other hand, was to listen to your customers. You <br> # struck such a great balance between a powerful feature-rich outliner and <br> # an app that was easy to use. I'm still yearning for the return of the <br> # Shadow.<br> <br> I'm not saying anything here, but, it often comes to mind. I've <br> gotten a fair amount of email over the years and of late (A half dozen in <br> the last few weeks!), so its making me curious enough to poke the bear a <br> little. <br> <br> My time is very rough, but if we could define something tight and <br> small and doable, I could consider making a go of it.<br> <br> .. sigh, I too have missed this group, but you guys were demons to <br> keep up with ;)<br> <br> jeff<br> <br> --<br> If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be no war.<br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> <div style="clear:both"> </div> <div id="fromDMARC" style="margin-top: 10px;"> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> Posted by: skeezix <[email protected]> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> </div> <div style="clear:both"> </div> <table cellspacing=4px style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: #2D50FD;"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bold; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SHADOW-DISCUSS/conversations/messages/25382;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOW4zazJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NDQ5MDIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzI1MzgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ3MzAzMzQ0Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=25382">Reply via web post</a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSHADOW-DISCUSS%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20still%20here%3F" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;"> Reply to sender </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;"> <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSHADOW-DISCUSS%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20still%20here%3F" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD"> Reply to group </a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;" > <a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SHADOW-DISCUSS/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2lkZmVlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NDQ5MDIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ3MzAzMzQ0Nw--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD">Start a New Topic</a> </td> <td>•</td> <td style="font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;color: #2D50FD;" > <a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SHADOW-DISCUSS/conversations/topics/25373;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bTM2bmYwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NDQ5MDIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzI1MzgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ3MzAzMzQ0NwR0cGNJZAMyNTM3Mw--" style="text-decoration: none; color: #2D50FD;">Messages in this topic</a> (10) </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <div id="megaphoneModule"> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;"> <div> <div class="stream" style="margin-bottom:10px;"> <div style="background-color:white;"> <div class="sn-img" style="display:inline;"><img name="tn_file" style="padding:0px 10px;vertical-align:top;margin-top:5px;" src="https://s.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/megaphone/1464031581_phpFA8bON" height="82" width="82"></div> <div class="mod-txt" style="display:inline-block;"> <a rel="nofollow" name="sub_url" target="_blank" href="https://yho.com/1wwmgg" style="color:#0000FF;display:block;margin-left:5px;text-decoration:none;"><span style="font-size:15px;">Have you tried the highest rated email app?</span></a> <div style="max-width:530px;padding:2px 5px;">With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. 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