Re: What to use? EtherCAT or Ethernet Powerlink with CANopen protocol

Albert Saenz wrote:
> You're right Kees!!
> But where can we follow with the discussion with the "field buses gurus"? (I
> will do my best. For sure!)

It's sometimes hard to find out what are real fieldbus facts and what 
are marketing fictions :)

Regards

--Armin

> Thnaks and sorry,
>
>
> Albert
> www.inavcnc.com
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] En nombre de
> [email protected]
> Enviado el: domingo, 16 de diciembre de 2012 13:46
> Para: [email protected]
> Asunto: RE: [CANLIST] What to use? EtherCAT or Ethernet Powerlink with
> CANopen protocol
>
> On one hand:
>
> - You are using the wrong platform for this discussion; I think this is
> called CANLIST.
>
> On the other hand:
>
> - I like the discussion: it demonstrates the changes in the market since the
> last ten years.
>
> The issues we talk about in this CANLIST are technical issues. How to
> implement such and so? Or I did it this way, why is it not working? etc.
>
> When the discussion is about ethernet protocols, it is no longer about real
> technical issues; it is about which protocol has the best opportunities or
> even which protocol is going to survive.
>
> In the Netherlands we have at the end of the year the top 2000 of hits of
> all times. Not very interesting because Queens Bohemian Rapsody is allways
> no. 1. Maybe we should organise the top 50 of Industrial Ethernet protocols
> on this forum. To stay with music: I suggest on number one : White Rabbit.
>
> As people from my age will remember one of the Woodstock great successes of
> Jefferson Airplane, but also the deterministic ethernet protocol, introduced
> by Cern. Not a manufacturer of Control Systems, but an end user of
> equipment. Probably they know better what they need, than all the equipment
> suppliers together.
>
> CAN was also designed with the application area (the car) in mind.
> Ethernet was designed with "office systems" in mind, so maybe it is a
> platform we should not use in industrial control anyway ???
>
> Kees Zagers
>
>
>
> Albert Saenz schreef op 15.12.2012 19:30:
>> Armin, sorry but...
>> 1st. CNC from the point of view of EtherCAT or Powerlink is a Master
>> device and so, any special hardware is needed.
>> 2nd. For Slave devices I could see that with a FPGA from Altera or
>> Xilinx can be enough.
>> In any case, the important thing, from my point of view, is to have
>> (available for my customers of course) as many I/Os modules and Motion
>> Drivers as possible and I don't know if it would be as my expectation
>> with Varan-bus. I only see AMK, Keb (?), Kollmorgen , LTi (?) and
>> Sigmatek. That no seems enough "universal"! Am I wrong?
>> Thanks and Best,
>>   Albert
>>
>> -------------------------
>>   Steinhoff [mailto:[email protected]]  sábado, 15 de diciembre de
>> 2012 18:15  Albert Saenz  [email protected]
>>   Re: [CANLIST] What to use? EtherCAT or Ethernet Powerlink with
>> CANopen protocol
>>
>> Albert Saenz wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Armin for your clarification (I realize that PLCs have special
>>> "equations" to obtain something that can be seen as deterministic
>>> response) and also suggestion.
>>> I don't doubt of filed buses "pseudo-proprietary" like it seems the
>>> Varan-bus. The problem is "universality", that means that many
>>> manufacturer implement it!
>> The VARAN bus is open specified and is controlled by the VARAN user
>> group (VNO) and isn't controlled by a single vendor.
>> The implemenation is FPGA based and the VHDL code is offered for the
>> member of the VNO.
>>
>> None of the members are bound to a vendor specific hardware or
>> firmware ... this isn't for instance the case with the so called
>> "universal" field bus systems PROFIBUS, PROFINET or EtherCAT -> you
>> have to use vendor specific ASICS/controllers.
>>
>> The VARAN bus is because of its flexible FPGA implemenation not bound
>> to the transmission speed of 100Mbits/s.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> --Armin
>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Albert
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>> [] Steinhoff
>>> sábado, 15 de diciembre de 2012 16:10 Albert Saenz;
>>> Re: [CANLIST] What to use? EtherCAT or Ethernet Powerlink with
>>> CANopen protocol
>>>
>>> Albert Saenz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I want to thanks everybodybut, I'm sorry, I think my question was
>>>> not clearly introduce.
>>>> 1. Despite any PLC can NOT be deterministic because it depends on
>>>> the "branch" it executes the program (Soft Real Time).
>>> It dependes on the type of the "PLC" ... a can be SoftPLC be
>>> deterministic if it works eventoriented on top of an RTOS.
>>>
>>> For instance:
>>> [ clip]
>>>
>>>> Anyhow, our query was to demand your opinions when we need to
>>> control more
>>>> axis and all the I/Os (digital and analog) with a single field bus
>>> channel?
>>>> That is because we are thinking in EtherCat or Powerlink (despite
>>> that I
>>>> sincerely believe that Ethernet hardware will win to any other
>>> solution in
>>>> the CNC market).
>>> You should also have a look to the VARAN bus:
>>> http://www.varan-bus.net/index_en.htm
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> --Armin
>>>
>>>> Hope I have clarify properly
>>>> Best,
>>>> Albert Saenz
>>>> Skype: my_voip
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