Re: [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield

Allen Pothoof <[email protected]> Fri, 17 Apr 2020 23:32:24 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.comp.hardware.bus.can
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Mark,

I'd like to say there'll be someone more knowledgeable along to give you be=
tter advice but I think most of us have migrated to LinkedIn and I'm not su=
re how many still receive communications from Vector.  I'll try to give you=
 some advice but I'm software-centric so I can't help you a lot with hardwa=
re.

Can this be done with the hardware you've identified?  I think you have a r=
easonable start but I'm going to end up asking some questions.

Will you hurt the bike recording real-time data?  Qualified no: if you are =
properly connected and that CAN HAT is properly designed, there should be n=
o risk.  But I can't judge the hardware and I don't know how you intend to =
connect.

Can you use a second RASPI for an simulator?  I would recommend it because =
you have to have at least 2 nodes on the CAN Bus for anything to work.  In =
other words, you can't test your node on it's own, it needs to be connected=
 to another CAN device.

Now my questions.

First, what motorbike?  And are you sure it has CAN?  If I remember correct=
ly, BMW used CAN and, I think, Ducati.  There's probably a lot more now but=
 I'm more into older bikes.

Assuming it does have CAN, is there a port you can connect to?  And do you =
have the pin-out for the connector?  In US cars, you'd have an OBD or OBD2 =
port (On Board Diagnostics) but I don't know if there is a standard connect=
or for (modern) motorcycles.  Good and bad points to the ports: they're gen=
erally safe to connect to but you'll have to request data.  If you have to =
tap into the bus, it's riskier but you can probably be a passive monitor an=
d just read existing traffic.

Possibly biggest question (and one that goes directly to the data set you w=
ant to use for simulation): do you know what the HLP (High Level Protocol) =
is on this bike?  Or the bus speed?

On a diagnostic port, it will be standardized (whether you can get sufficie=
nt documentation for a reasonable price is a separate question).  If you ar=
e tapping into the bus, it could be pretty much anything.  See, when you sa=
y "CAN bus", all you're saying is what a packet looks like (and how the bus=
 arbitrates and some other timing issues, some of which you will care about=
).  But "CAN" doesn't tell you how to interpret the data portion of the pac=
ket.  There are several standards and quasi-standards but I know companies =
that scrupulously abide by a standard and still manage to hide their data.

In looking at the data set you have a link to, I don't find any mention of =
which HLP is being used or whether there is any attempt to interpret it.  I=
t does say "automotive" so I'm not sure how relevant it would be.  (But if =
all you are going to do is write it with one node and read it on the other,=
 maybe it doesn't matter.)

I'm not trying to discourage you because it sounds like a fun project but i=
t is more involved that connecting a couple wires and reading a few bytes o=
ff a port.

Good luck,
Al Pothoof

________________________________
From: [email protected] <canlist-owner@vector-informatik.=
com> on behalf of Marco Miani <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 4:42 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [CANLIST] [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from diagnost=
ic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield

Greetings! My name is Marco, I am new in this group, and I am very happy to=
 be here.

I have recently started using Raspberry Pi and I am amazed by how versatile=
 it is. One of the things I would like to try achieving, is using a Raspber=
ry Pi to read data in real time from diagnostic port of my motorbike and lo=
g them on SD card. However, I have not the faintest idea where to start fro=
m. I have never worked with CAN and would greatly appreciate your help. The=
 RSPi has an expansion board which I believe is used to read data from the =
port, using signals H and L. This is the board:
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o0=
2_s01?ie=3DUTF8&psc=3D1

My experience and knowledge in this field, is very close to zero so I would=
 greatly appreciate some guidance and hints to be pointed in the right dire=
ction. Some of my questions are:
1. Is this technically possible, with the material I have, achieve my goal?
2. Am I risking to damage or corrupt the ECU of my motorbike if I do real t=
ime reading of the data, while riding the bike?
3. I have a second RSPi and I would like to use that as "emulator" to produ=
ce and spit out data downloaded from the internet (https://zenodo.org/recor=
d/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY). By so doing, I could build up some experience. Pos=
sible? Advisable?

Tell me if you need more info about the hardware.
I thank you for your possible comments, input, suggestions.
Kind regards,
Marco

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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
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Mark,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I'd like to say there'll be someone more knowledgeable along to give you be=
tter advice but I think most of us have migrated to LinkedIn and I'm not su=
re how many still receive communications from Vector.&nbsp; I'll try to giv=
e you some advice but I'm software-centric
 so I can't help you a lot with hardware.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Can this be done with the hardware you've identified?&nbsp; I think you hav=
e a reasonable start but I'm going to end up asking some questions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Will you hurt the bike recording real-time data?&nbsp; Qualified no: if you=
 are properly connected and that CAN HAT is properly designed, there should=
 be no risk.&nbsp; But I can't judge the hardware and I don't know how you =
intend to connect.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Can you use a second RASPI for an simulator?&nbsp; I would recommend it bec=
ause you have to have at least 2 nodes on the CAN Bus for anything to work.=
&nbsp; In other words, you can't test your node on it's own, it needs to be=
 connected to another CAN device.<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Now my questions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
First, what motorbike?&nbsp; And are you sure it has CAN?&nbsp; If I rememb=
er correctly, BMW used CAN and, I think, Ducati.&nbsp; There's probably a l=
ot more now but I'm more into older bikes.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Assuming it does have CAN, is there a port you can connect to?&nbsp; And do=
 you have the pin-out for the connector?&nbsp; In US cars, you'd have an OB=
D or OBD2 port (On Board Diagnostics) but I don't know if there is a standa=
rd connector for (modern) motorcycles.&nbsp; Good
 and bad points to the ports: they're generally safe to connect to but you'=
ll have to request data.&nbsp; If you have to tap into the bus, it's riskie=
r but you can probably be a passive monitor and just read existing traffic.=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Possibly biggest question (and one that goes directly to the data set you w=
ant to use for simulation): do you know what the HLP (High Level Protocol) =
is on this bike?&nbsp; Or the bus speed?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
On a diagnostic port, it will be standardized (whether you can get sufficie=
nt documentation for a reasonable price is a separate question).&nbsp; If y=
ou are tapping into the bus, it could be pretty much anything.&nbsp; See, w=
hen you say &quot;CAN bus&quot;, all you're saying is
 what a packet looks like (and how the bus arbitrates and some other timing=
 issues, some of which you will care about).&nbsp; But &quot;CAN&quot; does=
n't tell you how to interpret the data portion of the packet.&nbsp; There a=
re several standards and quasi-standards but I know
 companies that scrupulously abide by a standard and still manage to hide t=
heir data.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
In looking at the data set you have a link to, I don't find any mention of =
which HLP is being used or whether there is any attempt to interpret it.&nb=
sp; It does say &quot;automotive&quot; so I'm not sure how relevant it woul=
d be.&nbsp; (But if all you are going to do is write
 it with one node and read it on the other, maybe it doesn't matter.)<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I'm not trying to discourage you because it sounds like a fun project but i=
t is more involved that connecting a couple wires and reading a few bytes o=
ff a port.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Good luck,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Al Pothoof<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> canlist-owner@vecto=
r-informatik.com &lt;[email protected]&gt; on behalf of M=
arco Miani &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 17, 2020 4:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email protected] &lt;[email protected]&gt=
;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CANLIST] [NEW MEMBER] [HELP &amp; SUPPORT] Reading data fr=
om diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; font=
-size:small">
Greetings! My name is Marco, I am new in this group, and I am very happy to=
 be here.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
I have recently started using Raspberry Pi and I am amazed by how versatile=
&nbsp;it is. One of the things I would like to try achieving, is using a Ra=
spberry Pi to read data in real time from diagnostic port of my motorbike a=
nd log them on SD card. However, I have
 not the faintest idea where to start from. I have never worked with CAN an=
d would greatly appreciate your help. The RSPi has an expansion board which=
 I believe is used to read data from the port, using signals H and L. This =
is the board:&nbsp;<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_as=
in_title_o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8&amp;psc=3D1">https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0=
7PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8&amp;psc=3D1</a>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
My experience and knowledge in this field, is very close to zero so I would=
 greatly appreciate some guidance and hints to be pointed in the right dire=
ction. Some of my questions are:<br>
1. Is this technically possible, with the material I have, achieve my goal?=
&nbsp;<br>
2. Am I risking to damage or corrupt the ECU of my motorbike if I do real t=
ime reading of the data, while riding the bike?&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; font=
-size:small">
3. I have a second RSPi and I would like to use that as &quot;emulator&quot=
; to produce and spit out data downloaded from the internet (<a href=3D"htt=
ps://zenodo.org/record/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Hel=
vetica,sans-serif">https://zenodo.org/record/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY</a>).
 By so doing, I could build up some experience. Possible? Advisable?&nbsp;<=
br>
<br>
Tell me if you need more info about the hardware.&nbsp;<br>
I thank you for your possible comments, input, suggestions.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; font=
-size:small">
Kind regards,&nbsp;<br>
Marco&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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