RE: [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield
"John Dammeyer" <[email protected]> Sat, 18 Apr 2020 11:20:23 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.hardware.bus.can |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02AE_01D61573.5B98C810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BTW, I do have a cape for a BeagleBone Black and the software that runs = on the Beagle is the same as the software that runs on the Pi to = ultimately send/receive CAN messages. For entertainment I've ordered = one of the Waveshare boards=20 https://www.waveshare.com/wiki/RS485_CAN_HAT =20 When you look at the schematic you can see they have made the classic = amateur mistake of thinking the CAN bus is a differential bus with no = need for a ground connection. =20 https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/1/1d/RS485_CAN_HAT_Schematic.pdf =20 Now it's true that the CAN bus can function without a ground. I = executed an experiment with the TI drivers, designed by the late Steve = Corrigan at TI. I demonstrated that two battery operated CAN drivers = with only CAN_H and CAN_L between them did transmit the TTL information = between them. =20 =20 What followed were a number of conversations with Steve about the = internals of his design and why it even worked. And that's the problem. = It does work but it doesn't work well. Not noise immune and more = seriously if the ground connection between the two nodes has a DC or = worse AC offset (or electrical noise) the drivers can be destroyed with = no clear reason as to why. =20 So as the designer of the SN65HVD230 Steve was also adamant that a = ground is part of the CAN bus. It's a 3 wire bus. Not a two wire bus. = I wish he was still around. I miss conversations with him. =20 The Waveshare board _must_ be modified to include the DC ground = connection to your other CAN devices. =20 =20 If you want reliable communications. =20 I can't stress enough how important this is.=20 =20 =20 John Dammeyer =20 =20 From: [email protected] = [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Dammeyer Sent: April-17-20 9:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [CANLIST] [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from = diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield =20 Although the Elektor unit is more expensive you have to realize Elektor = also provides way more support than amazon. In either case the Pi talks = SPI to the MCP2515 and the support software on the Pi doesn't really = care that you are using the Waveshare or the Elector.=20 =20 I'm not sure about the wiring on the Waveshare device since they don't = provide a schematic. Really for the difference in price I'd buy the = Elektor one first. You get schematics and software supports. =20 https://www.elektor.com/pican-2-can-bus-board-for-raspberry-pi =20 John =20 =20 =20 From: [email protected] = [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marco Miani Sent: April-17-20 2:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CANLIST] [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from = diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS shield =20 Greetings! My name is Marco, I am new in this group, and I am very happy = to be here.=20 I have recently started using Raspberry Pi and I am amazed by how = versatile it is. One of the things I would like to try achieving, is = using a Raspberry Pi to read data in real time from diagnostic port of = my motorbike and log them on SD card. However, I have not the faintest = idea where to start from. I have never worked with CAN and would greatly = appreciate your help. The RSPi has an expansion board which I believe is = used to read data from the port, using signals H and L. This is the = board:=20 https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_= o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8 = <https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title= _o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8&psc=3D1> &psc=3D1 =20 My experience and knowledge in this field, is very close to zero so I = would greatly appreciate some guidance and hints to be pointed in the = right direction. Some of my questions are: 1. Is this technically possible, with the material I have, achieve my = goal?=20 2. Am I risking to damage or corrupt the ECU of my motorbike if I do = real time reading of the data, while riding the bike?=20 3. I have a second RSPi and I would like to use that as "emulator" to = produce and spit out data downloaded from the internet ( = <https://zenodo.org/record/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY> = https://zenodo.org/record/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY). By so doing, I could = build up some experience. Possible? Advisable?=20 Tell me if you need more info about the hardware.=20 I thank you for your possible comments, input, suggestions.=20 Kind regards,=20 Marco=20 ------=_NextPart_000_02AE_01D61573.5B98C810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document><meta name=3DGenerator = content=3D"Microsoft Word 14"><meta name=3DOriginator = content=3D"Microsoft Word 14"><link rel=3DFile-List = href=3D"cid:[email protected]"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> 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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div = class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= BTW, I do have a cape for a <span class=3DSpellE>BeagleBone</span> Black = and the software that runs on the Beagle is the same as the software = that runs on the Pi to ultimately send/receive CAN messages. <span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0</span>For entertainment I've ordered = one of the <span class=3DSpellE>Waveshare</span> boards = <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <a = href=3D"https://www.waveshare.com/wiki/RS485_CAN_HAT">https://www.wavesha= re.com/wiki/RS485_CAN_HAT</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= When you look at the schematic you can see they have made the classic = amateur mistake of thinking the CAN bus is a differential bus with no = need for a ground connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <a = href=3D"https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/1/1d/RS485_CAN_HAT_Schematic.p= df">https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/1/1d/RS485_CAN_HAT_Schematic.pdf</= a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= Now it's true that the CAN bus can function without a ground.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>I executed an experiment with = the TI drivers, designed by the late Steve Corrigan at TI.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>I demonstrated that two battery = operated CAN drivers with only CAN_H and CAN_L between them did transmit = the TTL information between them.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 = </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= What followed were a number of conversations with Steve about the = internals of his design and why it even worked.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>And that's the problem.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>It does work but it doesn't = work well.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Not noise = immune and more seriously if the ground connection between the two nodes = has a DC or worse AC offset (or electrical noise) the drivers can be = destroyed with no clear reason as to why.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= So as the designer of the SN65HVD230 Steve was also adamant that a = ground is part of the CAN bus.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 = </span>It's a 3 wire bus.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 = </span>Not a two wire bus.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 = </span>I wish he was still around.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>I miss conversations with = him.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= The <span class=3DSpellE>Waveshare</span> board _<i>must</i>_ be = modified to include the DC ground connection to your other CAN = devices.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 = </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= If you want reliable communications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= I can't stress enough how important this is.</span><span = style=3D'font-size:6.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> = <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:6.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o= :p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= John Dammeyer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;color:#993366'>= <o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid = blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New = Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> = [email protected] = [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John = Dammeyer<br><b>Sent:</b> April-17-20 9:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> = [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CANLIST] [NEW = MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] Reading data from diagnostic port, using = Raspberry Pi and a dedicated CANBUS = shield<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Although the Elektor unit is = more expensive you have to realize Elektor also provides way more = support than amazon.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>In = either case the Pi talks SPI to the MCP2515 and the support software on = the Pi doesn't really care that you are using the Waveshare or the = Elector. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I'm not = sure about the wiring on the Waveshare device since they don't provide a = schematic.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Really for the = difference in price I'd buy the Elektor one first.<span = style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>You get schematics and software = supports.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a = href=3D"https://www.elektor.com/pican-2-can-bus-board-for-raspberry-pi">h= ttps://www.elektor.com/pican-2-can-bus-board-for-raspberry-pi</a><o:p></o= :p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div= style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF = 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-outline-level:1'><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New = Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">canlist-owner@vector-= informatik.com</a> [<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mailto:canlist-owner@= vector-informatik.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marco = Miani<br><b>Sent:</b> April-17-20 2:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]= </a><br><b>Subject:</b> [CANLIST] [NEW MEMBER] [HELP & SUPPORT] = Reading data from diagnostic port, using Raspberry Pi and a dedicated = CANBUS shield<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Greetings! My name is Marco, = I am new in this group, and I am very happy to be here. <br><br>I = have recently started using Raspberry Pi and I am amazed by how = versatile it is. One of the things I would like to try achieving, = is using a Raspberry Pi to read data in real time from diagnostic port = of my motorbike and log them on SD card. However, I have not the = faintest idea where to start from. I have never worked with CAN and = would greatly appreciate your help. The RSPi has an expansion board = which I believe is used to read data from the port, using signals H and = L. This is the board: <br><a = href=3D"https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asi= n_title_o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8&psc=3D1">https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B= 07PQJMFVP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s01?ie=3DUTF8&psc=3D1</a>&= nbsp; <br><br>My experience and knowledge in this field, is very = close to zero so I would greatly appreciate some guidance and hints to = be pointed in the right direction. Some of my questions are:<br>1. Is = this technically possible, with the material I have, achieve my = goal? <br>2. Am I risking to damage or corrupt the ECU of my = motorbike if I do real time reading of the data, while riding the = bike? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>3. I have a second RSPi and = I would like to use that as "emulator" to produce and spit out = data downloaded from the internet (<a = href=3D"https://zenodo.org/record/3267184#.XpoiDcgzZPY"><span = style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://zenodo.org/record/3267= 184#.XpoiDcgzZPY</span></a>). By so doing, I could build up some = experience. Possible? Advisable? <br><br>Tell me if you need more = info about the hardware. <br>I thank you for your possible = comments, input, suggestions. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Kind = regards, <br>Marco <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></di= v></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_02AE_01D61573.5B98C810-- -- Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector.com/canlist/ Report any problems to <[email protected]>