Re: [EE] Reverse engineering a product

Yes... and they are learning that the hard way. They've started legal 
proceedings (I don't know the details, nor do I want to get into it, but 
the existing manufacturing company is in a different country and that's 
part of the battle), but they will run out of stock before that's resolved.



On 7/26/2025 9:47 AM, Alan Pearce wrote:
> One has to wonder why their original contract for the design and
> manufacture didn't include an "all drawings are our property" clause that
> they could use to litigate to get at the IP as needed.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 at 14:06, smplx <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2025, Clint Jay wrote:
>>
>>> They're trying to avoid telling a major client the design has changed (it
>>> has, it's been RE)
>>> Their design house has refused to handover the files
>>> All they have is a sample.
>>>
>>> Would not poke with a long stick, sounds dodgy as hell and like a huge
>>> liability trap
>> I've got to agree with Clint and all the other negative posts.
>>
>> You don't know what went on between this "entity" and the "CEM/design
>> house". There are many reasons why the designer might not want to supply
>> the files. Ranging from "failure to pay" to using the product in an unsafe
>> or prohibited manor. Even if everything goes well with your client you
>> could still end up wasting a lot of time and money defending yourself for
>> loss of earnings or patent infringment with the designer.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 at 06:50, Neil <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm in discussion with an entity who wants a couple products reverse
>>>> engineered. It's actually their products (and have their brand), but
>>>> they've parted ways with their CEM/design house who now doesn't want to
>>>> hand over the design & assembly files. And they need to be the same as
>>>> they are currently, else it may re-trigger a re-evaluation/approval by
>>>> one of their major clients. What they need is gerbers, BOM, and assembly
>>>> files so they can continue to make the product.
>>>>
>>>> For one product, I have a schematic, list of component part numbers (not
>>>> calling it a BOM as there are no quantities), copper layout for all
>>>> layers, and a sample assembled product.
>>>> For the other product, all I have is the copper layout for all layers,
>>>> and a sample assembled product.
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to figure out what methods are available to reverse-engineer
>>>> these products back to gerber and assembly files so they can continue to
>>>> have it made by another CEM.
>>>> For one product I can pretty much re-design the board from the
>>>> schematic, but not sure how to figure out the component parameters (not
>>>> just values like 0.1uf, but also tolerances, thermal characteristics,
>>>> etc). One is a very tight board with lots of mosfets so thermal design
>>>> will be important.
>>>> For the other product, I can come up with a non-valued schematic (so I
>>>> know where say capacitors and resistors would be), but won't easily know
>>>> what the values are. Can all of these be measured?
>>>>
>>>> The products may be able to be re-engineered, but I expect re-interating
>>>> prototypes to finalize the design would be somewhat different and would
>>>> take longer.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions here? Are they any design houses that specialize in
>> this?
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Neil.
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Clint. M0UAW IO83
>>>
>>> *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large
>> number
>>> of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
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>>