Re: [EE] Reverse engineering a product

I don't (need the work), but trying to help out this entity as I know 
someone involved.
I trust the part of the story I know and I do believe that the 
manufacturer is wrong here, but that's just my feeling. I don't want to 
get involved in the legal battle (which has started) but just trying to 
help them out.

-Neil.


On 7/27/2025 1:11 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> At 09:47 AM 2025-07-26, you wrote:
>> One has to wonder why their original contract for the design and
>> manufacture didn't include an "all drawings are our property" clause 
>> that
>> they could use to litigate to get at the IP as needed.
>
> Chances are there is a (perhaps disputed) amount outstanding and the
> design house is holding up the files until they get paid what they
> believe they are owed.
>
> We don't know the story. Perhaps the design house has not delivered
> on other promises, is acting flaky etc. It happens. But it also tells
> you something about the folks you are dealing with that they can't or
> won't come to a mutually acceptable agreement at the end of their
> relationship.
>
> Unless you really need the work, I agree with others, stay clear. If
> you don't steer clear, get paid in advance enough you don't end up both
> tired and unpaid, and at least think about how to mitigate legal issues
> that could arise.
>
> There are companies who specialize in this, typically in countries where
> legal issues, while feasible, would be expensive enough for the potential
> litigant that they are unlikely to pursue them. For example, they can
> extract code from just about any secured microcontroller as well as 
> reverse
> engineer complex multilayer boards using X-rays and such like. Of
> course if the quality of their work is not up to expectations then the
> recourse is also limited (but they don't get repeat business). Looking
> at one (I've never used such a service) they say they destroy the 
> original
> PCB and keep the parts, unless you arrange for their return.
>
> I have to kind of wonder how they could get products manufactured at all
> without the Gerbers and BOM at least. If the product is actually in a
> prototype stage then there is a reasonable chance there are problems 
> that are
> currently unknown (or, more ominously, undisclosed). Who pays for fixing
> those problems, should they mainfest?
>
> It's also possible that there is a split in the customer company and thus
> a dispute on IP ownership meaning that any suppliers prior to the split
> are caught in the middle and any ones after that utilize the IP may have
> to (at the very least) be very careful about contract terms. Best to 
> stay away.
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany