RE: Asm source code page?

Hi Jon, Al

I may be a little off topic here. Like yourselves I have used IAR and
assembler for many years. I like the thought of using both assembler and C
so I can use existing software and also use some of the advantages of C. I
started to have a look at CCS6 as I thought I would have to buy a copy of
IAR for the use of C. I only see one document on the TI website that refers
to mixing C and assembler and it is quite old. Do you have any references to
any other documentation on mixing the 2 and using IAR?

Thanks

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2016 5:29 AM
To: MSP430 List
Subject: Re: [msp430] Asm source code page?

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:33:47 +1030, Al wrote:

>I Totally agree with Jon.

  :)

>IAR's assembler is excellent, does everything I want, is unlimited, is 
>free, and since I don't use any libraries from third parties there are 
>no royalty issues.

That assembler and linker tool-pair is good. I've used a LOT of assemblers
in my life and have written a few, as well.
This one from IAR is about as good as assemblers for micros usually get. The
abstract segmentation model is great. The macro facility could be better,
but I consider it "good enough for most things." (I can also use M4 or some
other tool on the source where I feel there are some limitations.
Such tools won't be fluent with the semantics but they may be fruitfully
used. I just haven't felt enough of a need yet, since IAR's capabilities are
good enough for now.)

>The IDE is straightforward, and quite good.

It's remarkably easy to get started using and remains very capable as you
advance further over time. It just wears well over time. They've done a very
good job on its design. And, fortunately for some of us, have decided to
offer a fully functional toolset for assembler programmers at no charge.
I'm in debt to them for this fact.

(I'm also in debt for another reason -- I've never needed more than an
additional 4k of C generated code for an MSP430 project, so the KickStart
has been "good enough" for all my project uses so far.)

>It used to do some strange things, but they seem to have been cleaned 
>up over the years, either that or I subconsciously avoid them!

I haven't found anything that was "strange." I have found things that took a
moment to consider before I fully understood them. But once I gathered up
the conceptual model they made good sense to me.

The only "strange" things are things I've done myself with their toolset.
For example, I needed a way to find the largest common divisor for a pair of
configuration parameters to help me set up a clocking system that would
serve two purposes at once with only integer multiplier differences in their
operation. I hacked up a MACRO tool to do exactly that, too. Worked
perfectly. Now, someone looking at it would see "strange" there, I suppose.
But that's my fault, not IARs!

>I find the syntax is more in line with the vast majority of assemblers 
>I've used over the last too many years, no strange things.

That's pretty much my feeling, too.

>Their header files for each processor are also quite good, but large 
>because they are general use for C, c++ and assembler, so I personally 
>always clean out all the stuff I am unlikely to use, add some stuff 
>that I personally like to use, and rename the file, so I have an 
>original version incase I ever decide to mix assembly and C for example.

Hmm. So far, I've not bothered with that. In part, perhaps, because I
haven't done as much as you have and haven't reached a situation where the
trouble would have been worth it. In part, perhaps, because I tend not to
change standard facilities unless I can clearly justify the change. I'd
rather use an additional file I create and add it to the inclusion list. But
again, you probably have a wider array of usages than I do and I may very
well have made similar choices if I had faced similar situations, too.

Jon

>Cheers
>
>Al
>
>On 11/01/2016 6:15 AM, Jon Kirwan [email protected] [msp430] wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 22:47:23 -0800, Craig Carmichael wrote:
>>
>>> ... ideas for web pages of sample code in Asm?
>> Just as an additional note...
>>
>> If you are interested in writing assembly-only projects for the 
>> MSP430 and MSP430X families, I'd recommend using IAR's Kickstart 
>> tools. Their assembler is quite general-purpose and does NOT have any 
>> code size limitations at all. See:
>>
>> http://supp.iar.com/FilesPublic/UPDINFO/004578/infocenter/product_pac
>> kages.html
>>
>> where the 2nd bullet under the Kickstart heading says, "The IAR 
>> Assembler delivered is the full version without any restrictions" and 
>> the 3rd bullet expands, "The IAR XLINK Linker will link ... an 
>> unlimited amount of code originating from assembly code." (The 4th 
>> bullet adds, "The IAR KickStart C-SPY Simulator ... is unlimited in 
>> the amount of assembly code read.") This pretty much means you get an 
>> excellent assembler/linker toolset, plus a very nice IDE and debugger 
>> for coding purposes and ZERO cost to you. I've used IAR for assembly 
>> coding development and I really like the tools a lot, as they present 
>> a very clean, orthogonal design with all the features you need. Other 
>> assembler tools I've used, off and on, tend to have odd "limitations" 
>> which are frustrating at times. IAR's tools "just work well." Never 
>> wished for a feature that I couldn't already find in IAR's assembler 
>> + linker toolset.
>>
>> You can also explore C/C++ with IAR's tools, but the free Kickstart 
>> version does limit your final application size.
>> IAR asks a "fairly high price" for unlimited C/C++ code sizes. If you 
>> do plan on mixing C and assembly and plan on developing larger 
>> applications then you should consider other tools for a cost/benefit 
>> analysis. A starting point might be TI's page here:
>>
>> http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/microcontrollers_16-bit_32-bit/msp/tools_so
>> ftware.page
>>
>> However, be aware that this page in no way provides all your options. 
>> Rowley and ImageCraft are just two such examples that you don't see 
>> there:
>>
>> http://www.rowley.co.uk/msp430/
>> https://www.imagecraft.com/devtools_MSP430.html
>>
>> I'm sure there are others, as well, that aren't included in the TI 
>> page.
>>
>> If you are doing this all as a hobby, then you are free to make your 
>> own choices about assembly-only or mixed coding styles. Whatever 
>> makes you happy works just fine.
>>
>> If you have your own product/product-line in mind, then you need to 
>> be aware of licensing issues (libraries used, as well as compiler 
>> generated output) for the tools you apply. I believe you can use the 
>> IAR assembler/linker toolchain for commercial products without paying 
>> them a fee, so long as you are careful about library use (not using 
>> any library other than public domain would be safer.) It sounds like 
>> you might be in this frame of mind, but it is hard to tell.
>>
>> For professional contract work, you will want to be able to support 
>> mixed assembly and C/C++. Clients deserve to have the widest range of 
>> options available for their project development so that the overall 
>> development process can be optimized for them, weighing all 
>> conditions appropriate to their circumstances. You should then 
>> carefully study the various commercial options. But you should ALSO 
>> contact the vendors, too, and speak or write to a human there and get 
>> a feel for what contact and support will be like after you buy their 
>> tools. Most MSP430 vendors should be pretty good, I think. But it 
>> helps to make contact and see how things play out before making a 
>> final decision and spending your money.
>>
>> As an employee in an organization with more than one programmer, 
>> which does NOT sound like your situation, you do what has been 
>> established by careful consideration of your team members. If you are 
>> a sole employee, then I suppose you get to make your own choices but 
>> you need to make them well for those depending on you.
>>
>> Jon


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Posted by: Jon Kirwan <[email protected]>
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Posted by: "Peter Grey" <[email protected]>
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