Re: [L-A Lokalisointi] Lokalisointityöryhmä tarvitsee uuden vetäjän
Aschwin van der Woude <aschwin.van.der.woude-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected]> Mon, 05 Apr 2004 23:03:38 +0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.internationalization.finnish.general |
|---|---|
| Organization | Linux-Aktivaattori ry |
| Message-ID | <1081195417.7877.52.camel@workstation> |
Hi all,
Writing this reply has taken some time for various reasons. First of
all, my
trip to Kouvola, secondly the correct facts needed to be gathered as
Marko
had several of them wrongly stated, and thirdly as I wanted to go
through
the board.
My first email clearly stated my intention in our discussions, at that
moment
I hadn't seen much progress and wondered about it. The mails on the
localisation-
list didn't reveal much on progress as far as I could tell.
Therefore, I suggested to have a meeting to discuss this, the meeting
itself
took place after a Turuxi meeting on the 20th of February. I was
interested in
knowing more about the kind of progress made, and also wanted to ensure
such
information would be more readily available or reported more frequently.
* Private email sent on 18 Jan 2004
----------------- start ---------------------
From: Aschwin van der Woude <[email protected]
aktivaattori.org>
To: marko.gronroos-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected], maria.
pinjanainen-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected]
Cc: tero.kuusela-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected]
Subject: Meeting to discuss progress and leadership of the
localisation
working-group
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:49:49 +0200
Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7)
Hi,
It has been spooking through my mind for a while already, and even
expressed my concerns to Maria some time ago.
But I would like to discuss progress so far for the localisation
working-group, the road ahead and its current leadership
performance.
I propose to meet this or next week with the both of you, me and
Tero.
Perhaps under the enjoyment of a drink, so we can discuss my
concerns.
What do you both say? Which day is best and at what time?
Thanks,
-Aschwin
------------------ end ----------------------
About a month later Marko did post an email on progress, which I didn't
notice
right away. But at the moment I did notice it, the discussion had
already
progressed on to other issues.
* Progress email to the localisation list from Marko on Feb 17 2004
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/lokalisointi/0276.html
>From here on, my reply tries to correct some incorrect statements made
by Marko.
I do this by sticking to the facts and presenting them to you.
I would have liked to make the entire email conversation available to
you, but
Marko didn't give his permission to make his part of the email
conversation
public.
Therefore, I have only quoted from my own emails or my own remarks. I
did
however, tried not to quote out of context, which is all to easily done
with
quotes. Besides these quotes, I also included links to those relevant
emails
that were posted publicly on our lists.
> The final selection will be made at the localisation workshop in May.
The exact procedure isn't known yet. I have started an open discussion
which
will lead to a definition on how project and working group leaders are
chosen.
Such process-definition naturally makes sure both the board and the
working group
would be happy with the chosen leader.
Thus the localisation weekend seems like a natural choice to made such
decisions
permanent, as most if not all people of the working group will be
present there.
This might seem complicated, but a clear process is good for all
involved and
ensures fairness.
> Effective immediately, I am resigning my position as the leader of the
working
> group.
Factually, Marko didn't resign, I dismissed him from his role as a
leader of the
localisation working group.
Soon afterwards I realised such decisions would better be made by the
board as
a whole, and not by me as the chairman alone. Therefore, I discussed it
with our
board and it agreed with both my decision and this reply.
The reasons for dismissing Marko as a leader of the localisation working
group
are:
* No success in finding a solution or consensus suitable for the
people
involved, the working group and Linux-Aktivaattori.
* Different perception of leadership and no success in finding
a common definition
* Contradicting signals from Marko during the discussion
(e.g. wants to continue as a leader but doesn't have time)
* Different perceptions of constructive critique, hindering smooth
communication
* Overall difficulty communicating openly, directly and clearly
* Helpful suggestions are not understood or dismissed
* Lack of time on Marko's part
* Marko seems to be better at doing concrete things than more
abstract organising
The following quote indicates the helping hand offered, it started with
a
rather blunt statement, which I later apologised for.
* Quote from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting.
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 21:30
"I must admit, I haven't been too convinced of your leadership
skills.
But I am, and others are, willing to help you develop them. In fact
we
are all still learning how to work together. I myself find myself
learning about it constantly, as I did during the discussion."
> I have been interested in developing this effort, and I would have
> liked to continue, but that does not seem possible any longer due to a
> personal conflict.
Marko has stated several times he has too little time, and has also
stated
he would like someone else to take over leadership.
Of course this is all fine, studies are more important than whatever
Linux-
Aktivaattori is doing. But if one thinks both activities aren't
combinable
in ones schedule, it is better to drop the lesser important activities
or find
a fair solution. During our discussions, I hoped to find such a
solution, but
apparently we never did.
* Quote from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting.
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 21:30
"I sincerely hope we can meet in the middle and work in harmony
from thereafter. Resources are scarce and we need to develop what
is
available, lets do so together and the future will be bright."
* Quotes from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting.
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 21-3-2004 00:55
"I was looking for clarity. And you never gave a clear answer
whether you
want to step down as a leader. And if you wouldn't, what you
suggest we
do to compensate for the lack of time you have until you got your
studies completed."
Below are some emails in which Marko stated his lack of time and/or
asking
others to take over as a leader:
* Email sent by Marko to the discussion list
Subject: "Re: [discussion] Localisation working group?"
Sent on: 21-6-2003 22:31
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0017.html
"... I also can't promise significant commitment further than
end of August, after which my time will be more limited."
* Public email sent by Marko to the localisation list
Subject: "Organisointitehtvi olisi",
Sent on: 22-2-2004 11:44:10
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/lokalisointi/0285.html
"Myös ryhmänvetäjän rooli on saatavilla. Kuten jo viime kesällä
varoitin, minulla oli hirvittävä paniikkikiire koko syksyn ja tulee
olemaan
ainakin tämän kevään. En siksi ehdi hoitamaan näitä juttuja juuri
lainkaan,
vaikka kuinka haluaisin. Sen vähän ajan mitä minulla välillä on,
yritän
käyttää käytännön tekemiseen laatujutuissa sen pitämiseksi
aktiivisena,
sekä tuon portaalin ja sanakirjan kasaamiseen. No, ei minulla
niihinkään
juuri aikaa ole, joten jos joku haluaa ottaa ne tehtäväkseen, olisi
oikein
hyvä."
* Email by Marko, asking for others to take care of the portal due to
lack of
time,
Subject: "Portal domain name and development",
Sent on: 27-2-2004 17:54
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/lokalisointi/0296.html
"But, if someone is interested in taking the responsibility of
developing the site with TWiki and maintaining it in future, please
speak
up. I don't have much (if any) time right now anyhow, so I would be
glad
if someone else took the development of the site."
* Email sent by Marko to the localisation list
Subject: "Re: [L-A Lokalisointi] Portal domain name and
development"
Sent on: 14-3-2004 22:45
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/lokalisointi/0328.html
Quote 1: "...as I probably want to leave my responsibilities as
the leader of this group soon anyhow (because I don't have time for
it).
That way, I can do things that I have time for the way that is
easiest
for me. "
Quote 2: "... But then, this L-A effort seems to be asking for
more
resources right now than it's giving, and I don't currently have
time
anyhow for this. So perhaps it's best if somebody else in L-A can
take care
of this administrative stuff and I can continue working
independently as an
ordinary member."
As Marko mentioned 'personal conflict' as his reasons, which I am not
sure
what he means with, the most direct criticism on Marko has been a quote
I
have already presented, and in one of our last emails.
* Quote from a private email as a reply to Marko, after our meeting.
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 21:30
"I must admit, I haven't been too convinced of your leadership
skills.
But I am, and others are, willing to help you develop them. In fact
we
are all still learning how to work together. I myself find myself
learning about it constantly, as I did during the discussion."
* Quote from a private email in the end of our discussion.
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 20-3-2004 03:22
"First of all there won't be multiple leaders, just one, but this
one can
share some of its tasks.
Secondly, I don't see how you can stay a leader after your
insensitive,
uncooperative, sometimes hurtful attitude thus far.
On the other hand, this email was one of your more responsive
emails,
which I appreciate.
At least towards me you have some repairing to do on the
credibility and
personal level. But I am open for a discussion with you to sort
things
out."
> As I would not have particularly liked to leave my role, and as the
conflicts
> were not resolved in a businesslike fashion, to say the least, I feel
need to
> explain the reasons briefly.
First of all, the previous quotes from public emails make clear Marko
did state
his desire for someone else to step up to the plate and take over this
leadership role.
Secondly, there is no need to explain anything in public. I kept this
discussion in a closed circle, so we would avoid a potentially
embarrassing or
hard to retract situation. These reasons were also clearly communicated
to
Marko during our discussions.
* Quotes from a private email as a reply to Marko
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 4-3-2004 22:32
"I fully agree, and I have my reasons for keeping this discussion
private. It was a conscious choice to do so.
Most, if not all, issues should remain open, so everybody can
participate in such discussions. And I always try to do so, as much
as
possible.
But I assessed this situation as potentially thorny. Therefore by
keeping it private avoiding situations where things would be said
by
either of us, that would be a hard to retract in a public
situation.
Such situations could also potentially blow up when conducted in
public.
I hope you understand my reasons for keeping this in a closed
group."
The following email and quote gives a fair impression in what fashion I
conducted our communication, and shows I kept the interests of Linux-
Aktivaattori and the working group in mind, which I myself consider to
be a business-like approach.
* Private email sent on 4 Mar 2004 20:50
------------------------------------------
From: Aschwin van der Woude <[email protected]
aktivaattori.org>
To: marko.gronroos-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected]
Cc: minna.kiertokari-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected], tero.kuusela@linux-
aktivaattori.org,
maria.pinjanainen-VgemUZeIY8Ow/[email protected], sakari.aro@linux-
aktivaattori.org
Subject: Localisation working-group leadership proposal
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:50:10 +0200
Hi Marko,
After considerable thought a proposal developed about leadership
for the
localisation working-group.
As you stated several times, you have little time to spent on
Linux-
Aktivaattori or developing the localisation working-group. I fully
understand you want to focus on your studies and finish them by the
end
of this academic year.
Therefore I propose to temporarily share leadership of the working-
group. I can take on those duties, you have little time for. But we
will
need to make very clear who takes care of which duties. I could for
instance take on the task of reporting progress, maintaining
contacts,
and perhaps more.
Unfortunately my time is also limited, I too have a busy schedule.
So I
would like to limit this shared leadership to a two month period at
the
longest, and use this period to find someone to take over
leadership
from the both of us. This time can also be used to transfer duties
to
this person gradually, so he doesn't become overwhelmed right away.
If you agree with this proposal, I can announce it on the list
together
with a call for people to fill the leadership position.
Hopefully we can find somebody soon, so we can relieve both our
schedules, and focus on the other things we want to do.
What do you say about this proposal?
-Aschwin
--- Private email sent on 4 Mar 2004 20:50 ----
* Quote from a private email as a reply to Marko
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 04 Mar 2004 22:32:37
"But I believe the issue needs to be clear for the group as a
whole. Its
important everybody knows what each-others role is, at least the
important roles. Having clear lines of responsibility is better for
all.
So how shall we split it? Which tasks or responsibilities will you
continue to take care of? And which would you like to continue to
fulfil
after transfer of leadership to someone else. Which shall I take
care of
for now?
Lets try to be very clear about what we expect from each-other, and
communicate this to the rest of the group. And of course which
process
we will follow in the near future, to release our schedules so we
can
both concentrate on the other important things in each of our
lives.
If you would like me to take on the entire leadership role, please
tell
me so clearly."
> As I have mentioned earlier, I have been rather busy since last fall
and will
> be until summer, so I have not been able to work on our activities
full time.
> Last month, Aschwin asserted that we hadn't accomplished our goals,
that we
> had actually failed,
* Quote from a private email I sent as a reply to Marko
Subject: "Re: Translation department Hki University meeting +
Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 20-2-2004 23:53
"I would even say the localisation working-group as a whole has
made too
little progress, if any at all. If progress was made, it wasn't
communicated clearly enough."
* Quotes from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 21:30
Quote 1: "I never used the word "failed", in fact I explained you
several
times how I view it. Goals can't always be reached, but progress
can be made
towards them.
And I said at the start of the meeting, I didn't see any progress.
Which
either means there wasn't any, or there was and it was badly
communicated."
Quote 2: "Precisely, therefore I wonder why you keep talking about
success/
failure. I certainly don't measure in such terms."
* Quote from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 22-2-2004 00:27
"If there was a failure it was one in communication (between all
involved), anything else is your interpretation of my words. you
haven't
'failed' from my point of view."
> and that he therefore wanted change in leadership.
The email I mentioned in the beginning clearly stated my goals. During
the
meeting I also set straight the notion Marko had about me wanting to
change
leadership. And I did so as well on at least one occasion in an email
afterwards. The quote of this email is meaningless without the context
of the email, so I didn't include it, but it was sent on 21-2-2004
21:30,
subject "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting".
During our discussions, we also discovered we had different perceptions
of
the meaning of leadership and how to fulfil such a role.
* Quotes from a private email as a reply to Marko, after our meeting
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 at 21:30
Quote 1: "That is once again semantics. A leader leads, talking
about
leadership or leading isn't all that different. The first is a
role, the
second is its implementation."
Quote 2: "It clear enough, but I disagree. The leader of a working-
group
should know what is going on, and keep track of any progress. And
this does
mean activities as I had with Sakari should be reported up front.
Which I BTW did do to Maria, which was also a leader of the
working-
group."
Quote 3: "That is part of leading, you can't lead something you
don't know
anything about. Management or leading always involves keeping up
with
progress."
> While I tried to settle our unproductive differences, Aschwin was not
able to
> distance himself from the disagreements
Our discussions were full of misunderstanding, which never really got
cleared up
or solved, despite many attempts to do so.
Here are a few quotes indicating some of the misunderstanding:
* Quotes from a private as a reply to Marko, after our meeting
Subject: "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership meeting"
Sent on: 21-2-2004 21:30
* Quote 1: "No, I am talking about role-expectation, not about a
person."
* Quote 2: "Yes, I was referring to the leadership of the working-
group as
a whole. But leadership includes many different aspects, of which
some can
be shared, distributed or fulfilled by a single person.
I realised from the discussion yesterday, how very unclear I have
been
in my communication about the expectations I have of such
leadership."
* Quote 3: "Although I don't normally like to stick too long on
discussion
of semantics, I understand it caused confusion in our email-
discussion.
But I don't understand where the impression comes from judging just
these words. The word 'issue' has multiple meanings according to
the
dictionary, in which I found 10 different meanings. None of which
is
interpreted as 'reorganisation' or such meaning.
In fact my meaning of the word was described by the ninth
explanation.
"Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)"
Issue Is"sue, n. OF. issue, eissue, F. issue, fr. OF. issir,
eissir, to go out, L. exire; ex out of, from + ire to go,
akin to Gr. 'ie`nai, Skr. i, Goth. iddja went, used as
prefect of gaggan to go. Cf. Ambition, Count a nobleman,
Commence, Errant, Exit, Eyre, Initial, Yede
went.
9. A point in debate or controversy on which the parties take
affirmative and negative positions; a presentation of
alternatives between which to choose or decide.
So in other words, I meant to talk about several issues concerning
the
leadership of the localisation working-group.
Perhaps I could have chosen a more neutral word, but I think the
word
does describe it well."
> and leave the matters of the working group to us.
The matters of the Linux-Aktivaattori working groups are naturally also
a
concern of Linux-Aktivaattori as a whole and its board, thus also its
chairman.
> What is worst, Aschwin has been very accusing, arrogant, and
> insulting towards me during these discussions. He has continuously
been
> completely insensitive my pleas to not be immediately demanded when I
need
> time to concentrate on my studies, causing them considerable harm.
I think the quotes given also present a fair impression of my attitude.
If
someone would still have doubts about how I handled it, I will gladly
let such
person read all my emails regarding this conversation.
It saddens me if these conversation have caused harm to Marko's studies.
Part
of the reason our discussion didn't go so smoothly was due to the
conflicting
signals Marko sent out. He wanted to complete his studies, which is a
commendable
goal, but also to continue as a leader of the localisation working
group.
Unfortunately my own quotes can't make clear how these signals
conflicted.
Concerning my alleged insensitivity towards his pleas, there was one
moment
Marko explicitly indicated he wouldn't have time to answer before next
Friday. He sent this on Thursday the 4th of March, Subject "Re:
Localisation
working-group leadership proposal". After which I asked which Friday he
meant,
as the next Friday was already the day after.
As Marko didn't reply to this question, I waited with my next email.
I did sent one on the 10th of March indicating how important Marko's
needs are
as well. But it was the sort of email you expect no a reply for.
* Email sent during the waiting period:
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 10-3-2004 9:34
"BTW what you want is also important, that's why we have these
conversations.
If I would have been more selfish or whatever, things would have
turned
out quite differently.
I value integrity, therefore I try to work things out as much as
possible. Without such integrity, we as a group would rapidly decay
into
a situation nobody wants to be in."
The real next email was on the 14th of March, in which I for the first
time
stated I did no longer consider Marko to be a leader of the working
group.
This email was apparently ignored, he replied to the 4th of March email
on
the 20th of March. So he probably meant Friday the 19th of March.
If he would have indicated this date clearly, I would of course have
respected it.
So in this particular instance I gave him two Fridays to respond, a
little over
a week, which was in my opinion enough.
Marko did make clear in other emails he has little time for the working
group,
some of which are public as I mentioned previously.
But I can't judge if his leadership role is combinable with his studies.
> This is, of course, the situation from my point of view. Nevertheless,
as
> Aschwin is the chairman of Linux-Aktivaattori, and as the working
group is
> officially organized under Linux-Aktivaattori (which was, by the way,
my
> request originally),
> As this working group started largely from my initiative, and as I
have been
> working hard to develop it, this result is greatly disappointing to
me. I
> would have hoped that needless quarreling that emerged from nothing
had not
> ended with this sort of result.
The suggestion to make the project into a working group was my own
suggestion.
* Public email on the discussion list
Sender: Aschwin van der Woude
Subject: "Localisation working group?"
Sent on: 21-6-2003 20:48
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0016.html
"It seems there are plenty of ideas on how to approach the
localisation
issues in Linux.
Perhaps it is a good idead to form a working-group for this
specific
purpose, and have a meeting to discuss the road a head. "
* Public email on the discussion list in reply to Aschwin
Sender: Marko Grönroos
Subject: "Localisation working group?"
Sent on: 21-6-2003 22:31
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0017.html
"> It seems there are plenty of ideas on how to approach the
localisation
> issues in Linux.
> Perhaps it is a good idead to form a working-group for this
specific
> purpose, and have a meeting to discuss the road a head.
Yes, it would be.
> Any takers for the role of representative/chair(wo)man for this
> working-group?
I guess that depends on know how well people are acquainted with
localization and translating processes generally and how well they
know
the situation of localization of Linux and especially OpenOffice.
It
would be good to know people's background a little. Who has
interest
in working in the group, at least in some role?
I understood Nathan has studied translating (or something). Asmo
probably
knows the situation of OpenOffice best. Has anyone else even
whispered
about localization? ;-)
I have done some work on internationalization and localization
(tools and
documentation) and also made some KDE translations, but I don't
know the
history and current situation of OpenOffice localization very
well. I also
can't promise significant commitment further than end of August,
after
which my time will be more limited. Otherwise, I'm available for
the working group, at least in some role."
To me, it seems the working group or its idea was more the result of a
group
interaction. At least when looking at the publicly available
information.
I don't recall it as anything else either.
The first spark seems to have been during a Turkuuse (former name of
Turuxi)
meeting at Eija's workplace on 28 May 2003.
http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org/view/Bazaar/
TurkuUserGroupMeeting28May2003
An email by Tuomas might have started the fire and the discussion was
taken
to the discussion list soon afterwards.
* Email to turkuuse list by Tuomas Vesterinen
Subject: "Lokalisointihanke"
Sent on: 28 May 2003 20:56
* Discussion continued on the discussion list
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0187.html
* Marko suggested to do such project under FLUG or L-A, others
replied
positively.
Subject: "RE: [discussion] Lokalisointihanke"
Sent on: 29-5-2003 21:01
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0196.html
"En tiedä tarvitsisiko edes perustaa uutta yhdistystä (turhaa
byrokratiaa) --
joko Linux-Aktivaattori tai FLUG voisi ottaa asian hoitaakseen.
Kyllähän
yhdistyksillä on varsin kaikenlaista toimintaa ja rooleja, kunhan
asian
määrittelee yhdistyksen profiiliin sopivasti. Yhdistyksessä
voitaisiin
määritellä sisäisesti vaikkapa lokalisointijaosto tai -toimikunta,
jolla on
vastuuhenkilönsä."
* First discussion of localisation project in a meeting
Annual meeting 5 June 2003
http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org/view/Organization/
OrgMinutes5June2003
* Call for activity by Maria, with many replies
Subject: "Lokalisointi"
Sent on: 5 June 2003
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0204.html
* Project page created 15 June 2003 by Aschwin
http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org/rdiff/Bazaar/
LinuxFinnishLocalisation
http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org/view/Bazaar/
LinuxFinnishLocalisation
* New project page announced 15 June 2003 by Aschwin
Subject: "Info page about localisation"
Sent on: 15-6-2003
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0235.html
* Proposal by Aschwin to convert project into wg,
Subject: "Localisation working group?"
Sent on: 21-6-2003 20:48
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/discussion/0016.html
* first meeting working-group 3 July 2004, here both Maria and Marko
became leaders of the working-group
http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org/view/Bazaar/
LinuxFinnishLocalisation3JulyMinutes
* Marko announces list creation,
Subject: "Localization mailing list"
Sent on: 7-7-2003 10:47
http://archives.linux-aktivaattori.org/announcements/0021.html
> Regardless of this result, our effort is much more important than my
> involvement, so I hope you continue to develop it further towards the
goals we
> have outlined. I found it very important before and I still do.
> On the other hand, I'm also somewhat relieved that I can finally
concentrate
> on my studies without distractions.
I sincerely hope Marko will continue to work with the localisation
working group, as his localisation work on OpenOffice is very valuable.
I do also wish him the best in achieving his goal to complete his
studies
this year.
> Until the new leader is found, Aschwin has taken the position of an
acting
> leader of the working group, together with Maria.
* Private email announcing my decision, which was seemingly ignored
Subject: "Unfortunate decision"
Sent on: 14-3-2004 23:43
"As Maria has become more active in the localisation working-group
and was the other in the shared leadership, I will discuss
possibilities
with her."
* Private email in reply to Marko
Subject: "Re: Localisation working-group leadership proposal"
Sent on: 22-3-2004 1:45
"From now, I consider Maria to be the leader, as she is left from
the co-
leadership. And will assist her in this role, until we have found
another person to take care of it."
In other words, I am not a leader of the working group nor do I inspire
to
be so. I see Maria as its current leader and I will assist her when and
where I can.
Here an overview of events concerning the discussions with Marko,
excluding
replies sent by Marko or other people. In other words only emails I have
sent.
Some of them are referenced in the text above but not all. Neither were
all
replies directed at Marko, but he was in the Cc:-field for all of them.
--- Thread 1 ---
18-1-2004 22:49 Email, subject "Meeting to discuss progress and
leadership
of the localisation working-group"
18-1-2004 23:26 Email, subject "Re: Meeting to discuss progress and
leadership
of the localisation working-group"
21-1-2004 21:58 Email, subject "Re: Meeting to discuss progress and
leadership
of the localisation working-group"
27-1-2004 10:16 Email, subject "Re: Meeting to discuss progress and
leadership
of the localisation working-group"
27-1-2004 10:42 Email, subject "Re: Meeting to discuss progress and
leadership
of the localisation working-group"
--- Thread 2 ---
20-2-2004 11:00 Email, subject "Translation department Hki
University meeting
+ Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
20-2-2004 12:11 Email, subject "Re: Translation department Hki
University
meeting + Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
20-2-2004 12:53 Email, subject "Re: Translation department Hki
University
meeting + Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
20-2-2004 13:29 Email, subject "Re: Translation department Hki
University
meeting + Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
--- Meeting ---
20-2-2004 Meeting after Turuxi gathering with Marko Grönroos,
Maria Pinjanainen, Tero Kuusela, Minna Kiertokari and
myself.
--- Thread 2 continued ---
21-2-2004 21:30 Email, subject "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
22-2-2004 00:27 Email, subject "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
22-2-2004 00:31 Email, subject "Re: ... Localisation-wg leadership
meeting"
--- Thread 3 ---
4-3-2004 20:50 Email, subject "Localisation working-group
leadership proposal"
4-3-2004 22:32 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
10-3-2004 09:34 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
--- Thread 4 ---
14-3-2004 23:43 Email, subject "Unfortunate decision"
--- Thread 3 continued ---
20-3-2004 15:07 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
20-3-2004 15:22 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
21-3-2004 00:55 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
22-3-2004 01:45 Email, subject "Re: Localisation working-group
leadership
proposal"
--- Thread 5 ---
26-3-2004 00:12 Email, subject "Request to make our email
conversations public"
I hope this reply cleared out some of Marko's claims,
-Aschwin
--
Aschwin van der Woude
Chairman, Linux-aktivaattori ry
Mobile: +358 50 5676665
Internet: http://www.linux-aktivaattori.org
Address: PL 483, 20101 Turku, Finland
GPG: 55AB 3F70 6C6F C345 A3AC D7A1 F2FF C586 EB04 ABDE