Re: [L-A Lokalisointi] Portal domain name and development

On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 05:54:44PM +0200, Marko Gronroos wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Aschwin van der Woude wrote:
> > During a discussion last week with Marko, Maria, Tero and Minna, it was
> > suggested to register the domain 'suomeksi.fi' for the localisation
> > portal. This domain-name seems to be available even at the moment.
> > Does everybody agree with using this domain-name for the portal?
> 
> Another possibility would be lokalisointi.org, which is also free. I would
> guess that the .org is also cheaper.
> 

Yes, but I seem to recall we all considered a .fi domain a better
alternative and lokalisointi.fi was taken, which, as was stated in the
meeting, could create a lot of confusion. It was also noted that
"lokalisointi" as a term says next to nothing to a common computer user
and they are one of the target groups for this portal (e.g. to report 
bugs and see which packages are fully translated).

Nevertheless, I encourage everyone else to speak up on this matter as
well so a good and well-reasoned domain name is found.

> People, please comment on this.
> 
> And perhaps we shouldn't register it before we know for sure which server to
> use for it...
> 

Why not? We can put it to point to the current localisation page until
we have the portal if wasting it is your concern.

> For others not involved in the server choise discussion so far, the web server
> of L-A uses TWiki. I have been developing the portal so far under Apache, and
> have made the decision not to use TWiki, as the development would become too
> cumbersome for me. I will rather spend my time in developing the website than
> learning to use the server software and working through inconvenient editing
> interfaces.
> 

And as was stated in the meeting and seemed to be a big, pleasant
surprise for you and Maria, TWiki runs on top of Apache and does not
include it's own web server. So L-A server does have Apache. And TWiki
is not server software, it's just a few scripts to control the layout
and content of wiki-pages. It is possible to have TWiki in Apache in the
same server and have non-TWiki pages in that server as well. Even whole
portals.

Did you now understand the relationship and differences of TWiki and
Apache?

> I also do not know how much extra effort it would take to develop code that
> works both under TWiki and Apache, as part of the code should be usable by the
> translation groups, which currently mostly use Apache in their servers.
> Perhaps no extra effort would be needed, but as I don't know it for sure, I'll
> assume the negative.
> 

There is no need to make pages that "work with TWiki" if you refuse to
use it at all. Although, as Aschwin somewhere pointed out, the portal
layout you have made would be easy to convert to TWiki, which would
allow easier editing through a web-browser to any group of volunteers
here who would like to help in maintaining the site. And you were even
given the offer that someone else would do that for you.

If you don't plan on changing the layout radically several times in the
near future, I don't see the problem in using TWiki to keep the content
up-to-date. But that's just me, perhaps others here have other opinions.

> So, my choise is to stay with Apache, move to a new server, give CVS (or some
> other form of) access to others interested in working on the site, and
> possibly transition to some content management system at some time in future.
> 
> But, if someone is interested in taking the responsibility of developing the
> site with TWiki and maintaining it in future, please speak up. I don't have
> much (if any) time right now anyhow, so I would be glad if someone else took
> the development of the site.
> 

As I understand it, you were already offered the chance to get the
layout converted to TWiki by Aschwin and just having to take care of the
content together with the rest of the localisation working group.
Perhaps Aschwin can clarify this if I understood incorrectly, but I
certainly seem to have understood it differently than you did.

Wrt maintaining the site, I don't think TWiki would be too hard for you.
Just press the edit button, give your username and password, write text
and save your changes. And you even have a template for adding a similar
item than some other one in the page (e.g. news item) right before your
eyes while editing. Compared to CVS, I don't see how this could be
substantially slower unless you have a slow web connection.

Note, though, that by no means do I think that TWiki would be an ideal
solution for such a portal, but it's what most people in L-A already
know, what we already have, easy and quickly deployable. I see it as 
Good Enough For Now(TM).

Again, there might be someone here with a vastly better idea than either
of us have presented. I encourage everyone to speak up on these matters.

> That way, people at Linux-Aktivaattori would also be satisfied to have the
> site under their systems.
> 

L-A provides resources for it's working groups. Note, _it's_ working
groups. You are not separate from L-A, although you are free to leave it
if the group so wishes. Generally, it's a good idea to use the available
resources instead of finding new ones. But, at least currently, L-A does
not force working groups to use their resources.

> We would really need to get this portal going on.
> 

I agree.

> -- Marko Grönroos, [email protected] (http://www.iki.fi/magi/)


-- 
Tero Kuusela
vpj, Turuxi-vastaava
Linux-Aktivaattori ry

"A definite purpose, like blinders on a horse, inevitably narrows its
possessor's point of view."