Re: Rspamd integration

---=Part.54.5e7e9b0ff324086e.19f462be730.2cb8517753964e0b=-
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US, vi-VN, ru-RU, ar-TN, it-IT, de-DE, mn-MN
Content-Language: en-US

Great, thanks for the explanation about greylisting + rspamd !

--=C2=A0


=
Best regards,

Benoit TELLIER

General manager of Linagora VIETNAM=2E
Produ=
ct owner for Twake-Mail product=2E
Chairman of the Apache James project=2E
=

Mail: btellier@linagora=2Ecom
Tel: (0033) 6 77 26 04 58 (WhatsApp, Signal)=




On Jul 9, 2026 10:12 AM, from Felix Auringer <felix=2Eauringer@giz=2Ebe=
rlin>As far as I understand, the state for the greylisting is kept by Rspam=
d=2E So when a slightly suspicious email is processed by Rspamd, it returns=
 the 'soft reject' action and stores information about that email in its ca=
che=2E James could then temporarily reject the email=2E When the other MTA =
tries again, Rspamd remembers the email and returns the action `no action` =
so James would accept the email=2E I do not think that any persistence is n=
eeded on James' side=2E

I will probably do a short spike in the next days =
to see how much work a Rspamd SMTP hook would be=2E

Regarding James' rate =
limiting:
I thought the options `connectionLimit` and `connectionLimitPerIP=
` in the SMTP config were the only ratelimiting mechanisms in James=2E
Afte=
r your comment, I searched again and found james=2Estaged=2Eapache=2Eorg/ja=
mes-project/3=2E10=2E0/servers/postgres/customization/index=2Ehtml#_rate_li=
miting_for_mailet_processing=2E
That's more advanced than I thought=2E Rspa=
md's module (docs=2Erspamd=2Ecom/modules/ratelimit/) has still more configu=
ration possibilities but at least we would probably not really use those an=
yway=2E

Best regards,
Felix

On 7/8/26 4:55 PM, Benoit TELLIER wrote:
> A =
RSpamD hook would make complete sense!
> 
> Though the greylisting would ne=
ed to be backed with a persistance solution (redis ?) so implementing it to=
 plug Rspamd greylisting to James' future greylisting is quite some work=2E=

> 
> (contribution welcomed indeed)
> 
>> The Rspamd tests always take les=
s than 2s with my current configuration which would probably not hit any ti=
meouts=2E If that would be too much, one could also use another rspamd inst=
ance that only has the ratelimiting and greylisting modules and would be wa=
y faster=2E
> The design allows the mailet to override the default rspamd i=
nstance=2E
> 
> We should adopt the same principle in a future RSpamD kook=
=2E
> 
> Also we'd likely benefit from:
> =C2=A0- SMTP hooks for james rate=
 limiting
> =C2=A0- An analysis of what makes RSpamD rate limiting more adv=
anced than James' one (I'm curious!)
> 
> Cheers !--=C2=A0
> 
> Best regard=
s,
> 
> Benoit TELLIER
> 
> General manager of Linagora VIETNAM=2E
> Produc=
t owner for Twake-Mail product=2E
> Chairman of the Apache James project=2E=

> 
> Mail: btellier@linagora=2Ecom
> Tel: (0033) 6 77 26 04 58 (WhatsApp, =
Signal)
> 
> 
> On Jul 8, 2026 3:40 PM, from Felix Auringer <felix=2Eauring=
er@giz=2Eberlin>Hey Benoit,
> 
> You're completely right, the soft reject a=
ction is worthless as a mailet=2E
> There is already an experimental SpamAs=
sassin SMTP hook=2E Do you think a Rspamd hook might also make sense?
> In =
addition to greylisting, Rspamd also has a more advanced rate limiting mech=
anism than James=2E
> The Rspamd tests always take less than 2s with my cur=
rent configuration which would probably not hit any timeouts=2E If that wou=
ld be too much, one could also use another rspamd instance that only has th=
e ratelimiting and greylisting modules and would be way faster=2E
> 
> Best=
 regards,
> Felix
> 
> On 7/7/26 12:51 PM, Benoit TELLIER wrote:
>>
>> Hell=
o Felix
>>
>> =C2=A0 <listener>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <class>org=2Eapache=2Ejames=2E=
rspamd=2ERspamdListener</class>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <async>true</async>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 <configuration>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <reportAdded>false</reportAdded>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 </configuration>=C2=A0 </listener>
>> Allows to unplug this unde=
sirable behaviour: i think it shall be made the default=2E
>>
>>> =C2=A0The=
 "greylist" and "soft reject" actions are not handled=2E
>>
>> Correct=2E
>=
>
>> greylisting makes no sens in a post queue set up=2E We can only greyli=
st if running in the smtp stack=2E
>>
>> soft-reject and quarantine actions=
 would be best handled as add-header IMO
>>
>> Do you want to contribute th=
is?--=C2=A0
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Benoit TELLIER
>>
>> General manag=
er of Linagora VIETNAM=2E
>> Product owner for Twake-Mail product=2E
>> Cha=
irman of the Apache James project=2E
>>
>> Mail: btellier@linagora=2Ecom
>>=
 Tel: (0033) 6 77 26 04 58 (WhatsApp, Signal)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2026 12=
:10 PM, from Felix Auringer <felix=2Eauringer@giz=2Eberlin>Hey,
>>
>> I hav=
e some questions regarding the rspamd integration in James=2E
>>
>> Current=
ly, when I move a message from my Spam folder to the Inbox, it is marked as=
 ham twice: once because it was moved out of the spam folder in another fol=
der that is not the trash folder and once because the message was appended =
to the Inbox=2E
>> Is this desired behavior? The MailboxEvents=2EAdded obje=
ct has a method to check whether the email was delivered (or moved)=2E Addi=
tionally checking this would make more sense to me=2E
>>
>> James distingui=
shes the following six actions: "no action", "greylist", "add header", "rew=
rite subject", "soft reject", "reject"=2E
>> I tested that James successful=
ly handles the actions "no action", "rewrite subject" and "reject"=2E
>> Fo=
r the latter two and "add header", James also sets two headers and marks th=
em so that they can be moved to the spam folder if desired=2E
>> The "greyl=
ist" and "soft reject" actions are not handled=2E
>>
>> However, Rspamd emi=
ts different actions: "discard", "reject", "rewrite subject", "add header",=
 "no action", "soft reject", "quarantine" (docs=2Erspamd=2Ecom/configuratio=
n/metrics#introduction)=2E
>> We would especially be interested in the "sof=
t reject" action to implement greylisting=2E Additionally, rspamd returns a=
 list of headers it wants to remove / add=2E I think honoring those would a=
lso be benefitial=2E
>> Would you be open for contributions on these topics=
?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Felix
>> ---
>> Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr interkulture=
lles
>> Zusammenleben gGmbH (GIZ)
>> Felix Auringer
>> IT
>> Reformationspl=
atz 2
>> 13597 Berlin
>>
>> Tel: 030/513 0100 00; Fax: 030/513 0100 09 
>> =
giz=2Eberlin; felix=2Eauringer@giz=2Eberlin
>>
>> Amtsgericht Charlottenbur=
g HRB 200872 B
>> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrerin: Dr=2E Britta Marschke
>>
>> =
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To=
 unsubscribe, e-mail: server-dev-unsubscribe@james=2Eapache=2Eorg
>> For ad=
ditional commands, e-mail: server-dev-help@james=2Eapache=2Eorg
>>
>>
>>
> =

> ---
> Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr interkulturelles
> Zusammenleben gGmbH (GIZ)=

> Felix Auringer
> IT
> Reformationsplatz 2
> 13597 Berlin
> 
> Tel: 030/5=
13 0100 00; Fax: 030/513 0100 09 
> giz=2Eberlin; felix=2Eauringer@giz=2Ebe=
rlin
> 
> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 200872 B
> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChr=
erin: Dr=2E Britta Marschke
> 
> ------------------------------------------=
---------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-dev-unsubscrib=
e@james=2Eapache=2Eorg
> For additional commands, e-mail: server-dev-help@j=
ames=2Eapache=2Eorg
> 
> 
> 

---
Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr interkulturelles
Zu=
sammenleben gGmbH (GIZ)
Felix Auringer
IT
Reformationsplatz 2
13597 Berlin
=

Tel: 030/513 0100 00; Fax: 030/513 0100 09 
giz=2Eberlin; felix=2Eauringer=
@giz=2Eberlin

Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 200872 B
Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=
=BChrerin: Dr=2E Britta Marschke

-----------------------------------------=
----------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-dev-unsubscribe=
@james=2Eapache=2Eorg
For additional commands, e-mail: server-dev-help@jame=
s=2Eapache=2Eorg


---=Part.54.5e7e9b0ff324086e.19f462be730.2cb8517753964e0b=---