Re: James 3.8 one OpenSuSE 15.5

Hi everyone,

so, I had a look into Guice+JPA and it's quite easy to setup by just 
reuse the configs I have for the Spring build. And although I still can 
use james-cli (although a bit different) I now have access to the 
REST-api via the webadmin (until now it seems I misunderstood it: I 
thought the "web admin" to be some browser admin panel instead of just 
an REST-api). And although it seems rather easy to use it to do the same 
as with the james-cli and even more - looking in the list archive: Is 
there any "client" for it like some webpage or some standalone gui?

Guess if not it'd be a nice project to get something together - although 
I'm only a hobbyist and hence the "most advanced" I was able to get done 
was a simple networked battle ships game with some very ugly ui-code for 
the placement of the ships. So I guess if at all I can only provide some 
simple stuff and far from the code standards of ASF.

The next will now be to switch over to Guice+JPA and also upgrade my 
backup server. Nice to see I still can learn about James - just another 
confirmation it was the right choice after Citadel/UX got broken, 
although I'll re-visit other setups with sendmail, postfix or exim just 
for the fun of additional knowledge.

So long ... have a good one.

Matt

Am 11.01.24 um 05:40 schrieb Rene Cordier:
> Hello Matt,
>
> Thanks for keeping reporting dead links, I try to fix them every time 
> firing PRs :)
>
> Regarding the correct link to the jpa guice sample conf: 
> https://github.com/apache/james-project/tree/master/server/apps/jpa-app/sample-configuration
>
> Regarding the link in a previous email with jpa-guice installation 
> guide (but I think the readme is likely more complete): 
> https://james.apache.org/server/install/guice-jpa.html
>
> For this though: 
> https://james.staged.apache.org/james-project/3.8.0/servers/basic/conf/index.html, 
> yes that's still not done, it's normal atm, as said this new doc is 
> still a work in progress ^^'
>
> Regarding your mail with INVALID suffixed to it... No idea really^^' 
> Might want to ask the people managing the mailing lists I guess.
>
> Well if anything else don't hesitate :)
>
> Rene.
>
> On 1/11/24 02:45, cryptearth wrote:
>> Hello Rene,
>>
>> thank you for your reply.
>>
>> I tried to look into the docs and the readme, but I get redirected to 
>> these two pages without content:
>>
>> https://github.com/apache/james-project/tree/master/server/container/guice/jpa-guice/sample-configuration 
>>
>> https://james.staged.apache.org/james-project/3.8.0/servers/basic/conf/index.html 
>>
>>
>> From the readme it looks simple to get the jpa-guice package to run 
>> as it seems I can re-use a lot of my current configs. As for the 
>> required keystore: All I found was its use for TLS - as I use the new 
>> PEM variant it should also work this way. I'll give it a shot in a VM.
>>
>> Nice to see that the pop3 server is disabled by default. I'm sure 
>> this protocol still has its uses, but as it downloads the messages 
>> from the server and removes them while doing so I only see an 
>> application where messages not supposed to be left on the server like 
>> for quota reasons or something like privacy.
>>
>> As for MySQL/MariaDB vs PostgreSQL: The only think I know about 
>> PostgreSQL is that it exist but never used it due to most beginner 
>> books I read when I started roughly over 15 years ago all mentioned 
>> it but only used MySQL anyways. Shouldn't make a difference which to 
>> use.
>>
>> As for forwarding mails to my backup: I already came up with some 
>> ideas to make this work in both ways without causing loops so that 
>> mails received by the backup will also get forwarded to the main when 
>> it comes back up.
>>
>> btw: I noticed that my domain gets an .INVALID appended to it - but 
>> only here on this mailing list. Testmails to other services don't 
>> show this. Anyone maybe has an idea about that?
>>
>>
>> Have a good one.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> On 10.01.24 04:28, Rene Cordier wrote:
>>> Hi Matt,
>>>
>>> Let me answer you this time below in each of your points :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Rene.
>>>
>>> On 1/9/24 21:27, cryptearth wrote:
>>>> Hello Rene,
>>>>
>>>> thank you for the kind words.
>>>>
>>>> May let me answer your points:
>>>>
>>>> - Spring vs. Guice: I use James since the Beta of 3.0 and if I 
>>>> recall correctly back then the Spring package was the one to use. 
>>>> By the usual "never change a running system" I not changed since. I 
>>>> had a quick look into it, but unfortunately the links on the 
>>>> install instructions https://james.apache.org/server/install.html 
>>>> only lead to a 404 - so there's something missing. Also I seem to 
>>>> require docker - which I don't have any experience with. I'd rather 
>>>> prefer just to build a package, unpack it and start it without 
>>>> having to deal with any extra containerization around it. It seems 
>>>> I require some help to setup a guice install.
>>>
>>> Regarding the 404 on the install page, it looks like you are right. 
>>> It's not normal and I might take a look at it, thanks for the 
>>> feedback! However, docker is one way, but like Sprint you can still 
>>> just run a jar with Guice as well. You can see the download page for 
>>> example (where the links seem to work) : 
>>> https://james.apache.org/download.cgi .
>>>
>>> If you want to try to switch to Guice, the JPA james server is the 
>>> one for you, that you can plug with MariaDB. The distributed version 
>>> is for heavy deployments (which I don't think interests you here) 
>>> with cassandra, opensearch, rabbitmq, ... => 
>>> https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua/james/server/3.8.0/james-server-jpa-guice.zip 
>>> . You will see in the README as well in the zip some basic 
>>> instructions to run it, with docker or manually with the jar like 
>>> you are used to.
>>>
>>> I totally understand the reason behind the fact that you started 
>>> with Spring, so far it works, and it's safe to stick to it. Quite a 
>>> fair statement actually. The problem is that though the main 
>>> development efforts since a while are being done on Guice, and the 
>>> Spring one is quickly maintained, as nobody seems fully willing to 
>>> keep developing on it now. It works but could have potentially some 
>>> vulnerabilities... I'm thinking for example the spring dependencies, 
>>> that are old and outdated I think^^'
>>>
>>>>
>>>> - as for using MariaDB: This goes back to 2015 when I started to 
>>>> rent my server and own domain. Back then I had basically no 
>>>> knowledge about server administration let alone set up a mail 
>>>> server. Although there're complete guides on how to setup postfix 
>>>> with dovecot and such on opensuse I not managed to get it working. 
>>>> So I looked for a simple complete solution and ended up using 
>>>> Citadel/UX. For some reason with some update it broke to a state I 
>>>> wasn't able to start it again. Hence I wasn't able to get any data 
>>>> out of it as for some reason I just was not able to access the 
>>>> BerkeleyDB data file. As I also wasn't able to get the regular 
>>>> stuff with maildir running I just wanted a setup using a regular 
>>>> MySQL not just for config- and user-data but also as the mail 
>>>> storage backend so that in the event I encountered such a situation 
>>>> again I can just use regular tools to restore a mysql database. As 
>>>> I'm also a hobbyist Java developer for me it was a simple idea of 
>>>> "there has to be some simple mail server implemented in Java" - and 
>>>> this is how I ended up discovering and using James ever since.
>>>>
>>>> It also already came into play that for some reason I had to 
>>>> manually restore my database - exactly the reason why I chose MySQL 
>>>> as storage backend. As it was helpful for the reason I chose it I 
>>>> rather stick to it for that reason. The switch from MySQL to 
>>>> MariaDB was just something OpenSuSE did - so I followed it. As a 
>>>> user I not noticed any differences.
>>>>
>>>> As for the database issues mentioned: For some reason I had to set 
>>>> up the MySQL- and later the MariaDB-repos instead of using what 
>>>> comes with the OpenSuSE repos. I don't know what the difference was 
>>>> but it prevented the initial setup of the database structure on 
>>>> first run. Hence I'm glad that this is now fixed - whoever is 
>>>> reponsible for it.
>>> I get this :) I was just trying to inform you that these days we 
>>> work also on a Postgresql exclusive implementation for James. JPA is 
>>> good to be able to plug to a lot of different SQL databases with the 
>>> same code, but performances can be a bit meh. We are working on a 
>>> full postgresql implementation of James in parallel as most people 
>>> using JPA in the community are using Postgresql as their database 
>>> (as it is quite a popular one). The goal is to have better 
>>> performance here than with JPA for this particular db. But likely 
>>> JPA might be enough for your singular usage. Was just throwing that 
>>> here if maybe it was interesting for you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - sync between main server and backup: I guess the additional 
>>>> forward from the main server to the backup and handle them 
>>>> independently seems like a neat idea simple to implement. I mostly 
>>>> rely on my backup when doing maintenance on the root like OS 
>>>> updates which require a system reboot. It's not I want to try to 
>>>> build a distributed synchronized cluster. I guess for that there're 
>>>> better solutions out there. Looking thru the docs there's something 
>>>> pointing to 
>>>> https://github.com/apache/james-project/blob/james-project-3.8.0/docs/modules/servers/pages/distributed/run-docker.adoc 
>>>> - but that doesn't exists or isn't set to public, same as for the 
>>>> guice setup. So it seems there's documentation for what I want to 
>>>> do - but it's not available to me.
>>>
>>> That new Antora documentation is still incomplete and yeah there is 
>>> issues for some reasons with the distributed part that does not 
>>> render each time during build... Might need tot ake an other look at 
>>> it! For the temporary link of it though if it interests you: 
>>> https://james.staged.apache.org/james-project/3.8.0/index.html
>>>
>>> Distributed doc in the source code though if you feel like building 
>>> it yourself: 
>>> https://github.com/apache/james-project/tree/master/server/apps/distributed-app/docs
>>>
>>> I think yes forwarding your mails to both your main and backup 
>>> servers is simple and efficient :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a good one.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> On 09.01.24 08:44, Rene Cordier wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting read thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Few remarks though, but feel free to agree or not :) :
>>>>>
>>>>> - any reason to still run the spring version of James? That 
>>>>> version I believe is not always up-to-date with dependencies 
>>>>> (specially the sprint dependencies). Truth is it might get 
>>>>> deprecated and removed in later release if a consensus is reached, 
>>>>> as all active dev is done on the Guice versions now. You might 
>>>>> want to check that (JPA Guice here probably closest to the Spring 
>>>>> version)
>>>>>
>>>>> - note that there is active development at the moment (still WIP) 
>>>>> regarding a Postgresql reactive implementation with james (Guice). 
>>>>> I saw you seem to use MariaDB but might interest you for the 
>>>>> future maybe?
>>>>>
>>>>> - for sync between your main server and backup, maybe just 
>>>>> redirect the mails to both platforms, and let them treat the mails 
>>>>> separately? If not I guess db backup and sync between the two 
>>>>> could do it too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good job on running latest James on the new OpenSuse though, 
>>>>> thanks for sharing!
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/9/24 10:17, cryptearth wrote:
>>>>>> Hello there everybody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> happy new year 2024 to all of you.
>>>>>> It's been quite some time since I was last active on this 
>>>>>> maillist. After
>>>>>> upgrading my server to OpenSuSE 15.5 and James to 3.8 and after 
>>>>>> reading the
>>>>>> recent topics on the web archive I decided to post a small round 
>>>>>> up how it
>>>>>> went this way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Important word of warning and security:
>>>>>> This is only a personal write-down how I did my setup. I'm aware 
>>>>>> there're
>>>>>> still some security improvements to be done. This is meant as an 
>>>>>> informative
>>>>>> guide. I'm by no means responsible for any security issues that 
>>>>>> may arise by
>>>>>> following this. I myself got hacked by the Log4J issue mostly due 
>>>>>> to not
>>>>>> applying the available update fast enough. It's your own 
>>>>>> responsibility to
>>>>>> make your setup secure. All I can offer are some guidelines from 
>>>>>> personal
>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That warning out now let's get to the real topic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As several of the active devs here know I use James for quite 
>>>>>> some time now
>>>>>> and over the years encountered several issues mostly specific to 
>>>>>> OpenSuSE and
>>>>>> the packages provided by its repositories. Luckily this time 
>>>>>> everything went
>>>>>> smoothly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I started from a fresh clean "server"-type install, but this 
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> applicable to any existing system as well. So the first step is 
>>>>>> to fully update
>>>>>> the new system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As OpenSuSE comes with postfix I replace it with sendmail for 
>>>>>> later. I guess
>>>>>> it's also possible with postfix or exim or any other MTA 
>>>>>> providing the
>>>>>> required sendmail dependency. Using sendmail was just the 
>>>>>> simplest option I
>>>>>> figured out when I first used it.
>>>>>> The keyword here is "nullclient": It configures sendmail to just 
>>>>>> forward
>>>>>> everything to James without any handling itself. For this 
>>>>>> sendmail comes with
>>>>>> an almost ready-to-use config which only needs one change in 
>>>>>> /etc/sendmail/
>>>>>> linux.nullclient.mc in line 27 by replacing the example
>>>>>> "mailhub.domain.notused" with "localhost". Then just generate the 
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> sendmail.cf from it (either as root or via sudo):
>>>>>> m4 /etc/mail/linux.nullclient.mc > /etc/sendmail.cf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also have to edit the systemd script. For some reason the 
>>>>>> systemctl edit
>>>>>> command works a bit unexpected for simple edits so by appending 
>>>>>> --full it
>>>>>> becomes a full override. The service file needs two changes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) moving the PIDFile from /var/run to /run as hinted by 
>>>>>> systemctl status
>>>>>> message:
>>>>>> PIDFile=/run/sendmail.pid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) remove the -bd flag from the start args to prevent sendmail 
>>>>>> from blocking
>>>>>> port TCP/25:
>>>>>> Environment="SENDMAIL_ARGS=-L -Am -q30m -om"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check if sendmail service is enabled and started: systemctl 
>>>>>> status sendmail
>>>>>> At least enabled it so it gets started at reboot. As James isn't 
>>>>>> setup yet to
>>>>>> take its mails don't start it yet - it could cause a hang into an 
>>>>>> infinite
>>>>>> loop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before get to James I prepare the rest of the system by install 
>>>>>> these packages
>>>>>> (can be installed along when switching postfix for sendmail):
>>>>>> - java-17-openjdk-devel
>>>>>> - git
>>>>>> - maven
>>>>>> - mariadb
>>>>>> - phpMyAdmin-apache
>>>>>> - yast2-http-server
>>>>>> The required dependencies get pulled in by the resolver. After 
>>>>>> installing the
>>>>>> packages YaST tells you to secure MariaDB. So I do this right 
>>>>>> away by running
>>>>>> mariadb-secure-installation as root/sudo and set a root password. 
>>>>>> All other
>>>>>> questions can be answered with thier default option (just hit 
>>>>>> enter).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To get phpMyAdmin running only the initial setup using "yast 
>>>>>> http-server" is
>>>>>> required. Select enable PHP in the 2nd step and complete the 
>>>>>> setup by just
>>>>>> hitting F10 a couple times. If the Apache2 server is accessible 
>>>>>> via the
>>>>>> internet care should be taken by limiting phpMyAdmin to 
>>>>>> localhost. Edit /etc/
>>>>>> apache2/conf.d/phpMyAdmin.conf line 27 to "Require local" and use 
>>>>>> ssh tunnels.
>>>>>> If you have services like a vpn or a tor hidden service running 
>>>>>> you may want
>>>>>> to secure it even further with something like an .htaccess or 
>>>>>> similar. This
>>>>>> way you prevent attackers from trying to bruteforce your database 
>>>>>> password.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Complete the pre-setup by use phpMyAdmin to add a new user for 
>>>>>> James.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let's build James:
>>>>>> git clone https://github.com/apache/james-project -b 
>>>>>> james-project-3.8.0
>>>>>> cd james-project
>>>>>> mvn clean package -DskipTests -T 1C
>>>>>> As I use the spring package I then unpack the tar in 
>>>>>> james-project/server/
>>>>>> apps/spring-app/target/james-server-spring-app-3.8.0-app.tar.gz.
>>>>>> I also need to get the mariadb-connector/J: 
>>>>>> https://mariadb.com/downloads/
>>>>>> connectors/ and place the .jar in the 
>>>>>> james-server-spring-app-3.8.0/lib
>>>>>> folder.
>>>>>> I'm not sure why this isn't distributed along or part of the 
>>>>>> package manifest
>>>>>> to pull from the repos - guess this is some licence nonesense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's config time now - and there's not that much to do.
>>>>>> As I don't use POP3 the first I do is disable the POP3 server.
>>>>>> Next I set up the database stuff by change the driver to
>>>>>> org.mariadb.jdbc.Driver
>>>>>> and the connector-string to
>>>>>> jdbc:mariadb://localhost:3306/james
>>>>>> Btw: As pretty much any modern JDBC driver should be a type 4.x 
>>>>>> there's no
>>>>>> need to specify the driver class name or do something like
>>>>>> Class.forName()
>>>>>> As long as the driver jar is in classpath on startup of the JVM 
>>>>>> it gets pulled
>>>>>> in via the ServiceLoader-API.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next I set my domain and the greetings in the imap and smtp 
>>>>>> servers. I also
>>>>>> enable StartTLS for both imap and smtp. As for outgoing smtp I 
>>>>>> also enable
>>>>>> StartTLS by adding this to the RemoteDelievery in the 
>>>>>> mailetcontainer.xml:
>>>>>> <startTLS>true</startTLS>
>>>>>> This should be added by default as it's only mentioned in the 
>>>>>> RemoteDelievery
>>>>>> javadoc but not in the XML doc nor in the config doc.
>>>>>> Until now I used a Java keystore for the certificate and key. But 
>>>>>> using the new
>>>>>> PEM files directly skips this. Thanks for who added this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last part is to deal with sendmail and apache2/php mail. For 
>>>>>> this I first
>>>>>> add two users to James (along with others like postmaster): 
>>>>>> webmaster and
>>>>>> local-service. Then I add this to the mailetcontainer.xml right 
>>>>>> at the top of
>>>>>> the root processor:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          <matcher name="local-service"
>>>>>> match="org.apache.james.mailetcontainer.impl.matchers.And">
>>>>>>                  <matcher match="RemoteAddrInNetwork=127.0.0.0/8" />
>>>>>>                  <matcher
>>>>>> match="org.apache.james.mailetcontainer.impl.matchers.Not">
>>>>>>                          <matcher match="SMTPAuthSuccessful" />
>>>>>>                  </matcher>
>>>>>>                  <matcher
>>>>>> match="org.apache.james.mailetcontainer.impl.matchers.Not">
>>>>>>                          <matcher 
>>>>>> match="[email protected]" />
>>>>>>                  </matcher>
>>>>>>                  <matcher
>>>>>> match="org.apache.james.mailetcontainer.impl.matchers.Not">
>>>>>>                          <matcher match="RecipientIs=local-
>>>>>> [email protected]" />
>>>>>>                  </matcher>
>>>>>>          </matcher>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          <mailet match="local-service" class="Redirect">
>>>>>> <to>[email protected]</to>
>>>>>>          </mailet>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To explain its purpose:
>>>>>> When starting James via crontab by root crond sends a start 
>>>>>> report via
>>>>>> sendmail. In order for sendmail to not get stuck in an endless 
>>>>>> loop trying to
>>>>>> deliver the crond status I have to provide some drop off 
>>>>>> destination for it.
>>>>>> But as I also want to send e-mails by PHP I had to get a bit 
>>>>>> creative
>>>>>> filtering. It basically goes like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF incoming mail comes from localhost
>>>>>> AND is NOT authenticated via smtp auth
>>>>>> AND is NOT sent by webmaster (from php)
>>>>>> AND is NOT already redirected to local-service
>>>>>> THEN redirect to local-service
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This rule maybe can be written better - but it was the simplest I 
>>>>>> came up
>>>>>> with. The check for the recipient is required so the mail doesn't 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> redirected to itself again. The check for the webmaster is 
>>>>>> required as
>>>>>> sendmail drops off php mails with wwwrun@localhost, which is 
>>>>>> overriden by the -
>>>>>> f parameter to webmaster. Any other client that regular logs in 
>>>>>> via AUTH is
>>>>>> ignored anyway. And the whole thing is limited to localhost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, add a
>>>>>> @reboot /path/to/james/bin/james start
>>>>>> to roots crontab for james autostart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If everything was done correctly james should start up just fine 
>>>>>> for the first
>>>>>> time (it actually already had to for adding the users - but this 
>>>>>> can be done
>>>>>> now).
>>>>>> I do the first start via "console" to verify everything is done 
>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>> After all is done and james starts correctly I just reboot the 
>>>>>> system. Now
>>>>>> when all comes up by itself the local-service user should have a 
>>>>>> mail confirm
>>>>>> the successful start of James which also confirms that the 
>>>>>> sendmail nullclient
>>>>>> and the mailet redirect works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A common failure can be an issue with name resolution. In this 
>>>>>> case you have
>>>>>> to manually set /etc/hosts and reboot again. This can also be 
>>>>>> done early on as
>>>>>> one of the first few steps after updating the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To send mails from apache this can be done like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>>          $to="[email protected]";
>>>>>>          $subject=$content="this is a apache webmail test";
>>>>>>          $headers = array(
>>>>>>                  'From' => 'CryptEarth.de Webmaster 
>>>>>> <[email protected]>',
>>>>>>                  'Reply-To' => '[email protected]',
>>>>>>                  'X-Mailer' => 'PHP/' . phpversion()
>>>>>>          );
>>>>>>          mail($to, $subject, $content, $headers, 
>>>>>> "[email protected]");
>>>>>> ?>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A few improvements that can (and should) be done:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - don't start james as root but rather move the ports to 8025 and 
>>>>>> 8143 and use
>>>>>> a firewall rule to redirect 25 to 8025 and 143 to 8143 ... but I 
>>>>>> have to figure
>>>>>> that out
>>>>>> - maybe rethink about sendmail nullclient and do similar with 
>>>>>> postfix or exim
>>>>>> - maybe redo the mailet redirect for local-service and php-mail
>>>>>> - setting up DKIM on outgoing mails
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Currently I have James running on two servers: my main root as 
>>>>>> primary and on
>>>>>> a small sbc at home as a backup. Is there a way to synchronize 
>>>>>> the two servers
>>>>>> on the application level. Or would it be enough to just 
>>>>>> synchronize the two
>>>>>> datases secured by a ssh tunnel? How to handle the differences in 
>>>>>> the counters
>>>>>> when both servers receive an e-mail each which have to get 
>>>>>> synchronized in
>>>>>> both ways?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a nice week.
>>>>>> Greetings from Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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