Re: Status

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I may ruffle some feathers here, but I'm going to be frank because I =
think ultimately it makes for better communication.

I don't think any *responsible* (yes that might be asking a lot) =
enterprise should still be using Java 1.4 or Java 5. Java 1.4 was end of =
life three years ago and Java 5 was end of life two years ago, and they =
both have security vulnerabilities and stability issues that Sun/Oracle =
considers critical. Furthermore, Java 6 came out five years ago, and =
Java 7 comes out in just 20 days. Could you imagine a company still =
using Windows 95, Windows 98SE or Windows NT and then calling up their =
software vendor and asking why the 2011-year software they just bought =
doesn't work on their antiquated, no-longer-supported operating system? =
They'd get laughed at. It's simply not reasonable, just like it's not =
reasonable for users of Java software written today to expect that =
software to run on Java 1.4 or Java 5. We recently told 200 customers =
that if they want to upgrade from the 2007 version of our software to =
the 2010 version, they were going to have to upgrade from Java 1.4 to =
Java 6. They complained a little bit, but they didn't decide to stop =
using our software. They upgraded.

People who care about using ant-contrib will still use ant-contrib if =
you end Java 1.4 and Java 5 support.

I know that writing open source software may not be a business most =
people are in to make money. But there's still a measure of success in =
the open source world, just like there's a measure of success in the =
corporate world. I see that success as 1) regularly releasing new, =
stable versions of your product that provide new features and take =
advantage of new technologies, and 2) having a product that people want =
to use and come download from you so that they can do so. Just like a =
business has to make decisions to achieve their measure of success, so =
must open source communities. I think supporting only Java 6 and 7 and =
the latest versions of Ant and Ivy is the right business decision to =
make to keep ant-contrib successful, and I support that decision.

And let's keep one very important fact in mind: If someone, for some =
strange reason, needs to build an old (or new) version of a product that =
must be built on Java 1.4, they can still do so in Ant even if Ant is =
running in Java 6. We do.

Just my two cents.

Nick

On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:01 PM, Matthew Inger wrote:

> A few people have asked the status of the ant-contrib project.
>=20
> I have not had much time to work on it recently.  Also,  I got kind of =
frustrated by the constant API changes
> in Ant itself which kept breaking various tasks.  As a result, I had =
to maintain several different versions of the
> code just to support different Ant versions.
>=20
> On top of that, we have 1 task that relies on Ivy as well, and that =
underwent version changes.
>=20
> Then add into the mix, supporting Java 1.5 and Java 1.6.
>=20
> It all because too many variables.
>=20
> I'm willing to get everything working on Ant 1.8.2 (the most recent =
version), and put out a final
> release.  However, it will require specific versions of Ant, JDK and =
Ivy.  As those other products
> get updated, newer Ant-Contrib would support only the latest versions =
of those.  That's not to say
> ant-contrib would not be backward compatible, but that depends on the =
API changes of it's dependent
> products.
>=20
> Thoughts?
> =20
> ----
> [email protected]
> "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it
> dominate your destiny. Consume you it will " - Yoda
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously =
valuable.
> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, =
security=20
> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and =
makes=20
> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> =
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2_________________________________________=
______
> Ant-contrib-developers mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ant-contrib-developers


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I may =
ruffle some feathers here, but I'm going to be frank because I think =
ultimately it makes for better communication.<div><br></div><div>I don't =
think any *responsible* (yes that might be asking a lot) enterprise =
should still be using Java 1.4 or Java 5. Java 1.4 was end of life three =
years ago and Java 5 was end of life two years ago, and they both have =
security vulnerabilities and stability issues that Sun/Oracle considers =
<b>critical</b>. Furthermore, Java 6 came out <b>five</b>&nbsp;years =
ago, and Java 7 comes out in just 20 days. Could you imagine a company =
still using Windows 95, Windows 98SE or Windows NT and then calling up =
their software vendor and asking why the 2011-year software they just =
bought doesn't work on their antiquated, no-longer-supported operating =
system? They'd get laughed at. It's simply not reasonable, just like =
it's not reasonable for users of Java software written today to expect =
that software to run on Java 1.4 or Java 5. We recently told 200 =
customers that if they want to upgrade from the 2007 version of our =
software to the 2010 version, they were going to have to upgrade from =
Java 1.4 to Java 6. They complained a little bit, but they didn't decide =
to stop using our software. They =
upgraded.</div><div><br></div><div>People who care about using =
ant-contrib will still use ant-contrib if you end Java 1.4 and Java 5 =
support.</div><div><br></div><div>I know that writing open source =
software may not be a business most people are in to make money. But =
there's still a measure of success in the open source world, just like =
there's a measure of success in the corporate world. I see that success =
as 1) regularly releasing new, stable versions of your product that =
provide new features and take advantage of new technologies, and 2) =
having a product that people want to use and come download from you so =
that they can do so. Just like a business has to make decisions to =
achieve their measure of success, so must open source communities. I =
think supporting only Java 6 and 7 and the latest versions of Ant and =
Ivy is the right business decision to make to keep ant-contrib =
successful, and I support that decision.</div><div><br></div><div>And =
let's keep one very important fact in mind: If someone, for some strange =
reason, needs to build an old (or new) version of a product that must be =
built on Java 1.4, they can still do so in Ant even if Ant is running in =
Java 6. We do.</div><div><br></div><div>Just my two =
cents.</div><div><br></div><div>Nick</div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 7, =
2011, at 11:01 PM, Matthew Inger wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div =
style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, =
new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div>A few people have asked the =
status of the ant-contrib project.</div><div><br></div><div>I have not =
had much time to work on it recently. &nbsp;Also, &nbsp;I got kind of =
frustrated by the constant API changes</div><div>in Ant itself which =
kept breaking various tasks. &nbsp;As a result, I had to maintain =
several different versions of the</div><div>code just to support =
different Ant versions.</div><div><br></div><div>On top of that, we have =
1 task that relies on Ivy as well, and that underwent version =
changes.</div><div><br></div><div>Then add into the mix, supporting Java =
1.5 and Java 1.6.</div><div><br></div><div>It all because too many =
variables.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm willing to get everything =
working on Ant 1.8.2 (the most recent version), and put out a =
final</div><div>release. &nbsp;However, it will require specific
 versions of Ant, JDK and Ivy. &nbsp;As those other =
products</div><div>get updated, newer Ant-Contrib would support only the =
latest versions of those. &nbsp;That's not to say</div><div>ant-contrib =
would not be backward compatible, but that depends on the API changes of =
it's =
dependent</div><div>products.</div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div=
>&nbsp;</div><div>----<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>"Once you =
start down the dark path, forever will it<br>dominate your destiny.  =
Consume you it will " - =
Yoda</div></div></div>----------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------<br>All of the data generated in your IT =
infrastructure is seriously valuable.<br>Why? It contains a definitive =
record of application performance, security <br>threats, fraudulent =
activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes <br>sense of it. IT =
sense. And common sense.<br><a =
href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2_________________________________=
______________">http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2_________________________=
______________________</a><br>Ant-contrib-developers mailing =
list<br>[email protected]<br>https://lists.sour=
ceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ant-contrib-developers<br></blockquote></div><b=
r></div></body></html>=

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security 
threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes 
sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2
--===============4660274198994906257==
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_______________________________________________
Ant-contrib-developers mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ant-contrib-developers

--===============4660274198994906257==--