Re: [Beanshell-users] RE: Recent BeanShell feature discussion

Hi Dave,

> However, I think BeanShell has some specific potential
> for use in conventional Java software that sets it apart from all those
> other language projects, and it's exciting.

I couldn't agree more.  I'm simply saying that as long as BeanShell remains
a perfect superset of the Java language it will maintain its unique
proposition.

> I like some of the extra syntax features of BeanShell.  But BeanShell is
> pretty powerful, and it's probably pretty easy (and fun for the
> developers) to extend it with all sorts of extra language features, not
> just syntactic ones, but also stuff like mixins, invocation handlers,
> etc.  It can get pretty far beyond readability-enhancing "syntactic
> economies".

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time doing this, I completely
agree :-)  I've had a blast adding in things ranging from Python-like named
parameters (ex. questionDialog(text:"Hello", icon:qmark); ) and method proxy
delegates for final classes such as String to AOP constructs.

> My question is, willl BeanShell become a hotbed of dynamic
> object-oriented language experimentation? Will it become a powerful java
> source interpreter, with a framework for flexible integration with
> larger Java software systems?  Trying to achieve both of those things at
> once seems hard, and the former category has many competing projects.

I think the goal should be more the latter, but I truly believe the superset
approach allows you to do a little of both.  Even as a superset of Java
there is quite a bit you can do in terms of "dynamic object-oriented
language experimentation" thanks to Java being a tight, well designed, and
relatively simple language.  I would say BeanShell is already succeeding in
doing both to some extend.

Anyway, there are plenty of people for whom I have great respect that agree
with you (BeanShell shouldn't add too much.)  Sometimes reasonable people
have to agree to disagree :-)

Cheers,
Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Fogel" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>;
<Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:11 AM
Subject: [Beanshell-users] RE: [Beanshell-dev] Recent BeanShell feature
discussion


> Hi Dan-
>
> you ended your message by saying:
>
> >Adding some syntactic niceties to BeanShell would make the language more
> >useful to many people and, if they can be disabled, hurt no-one.
> >
> I didn't mean to come across as so adamantly against any syntactic
> shortcuts being part of BeanShell.  In part I guess I was venting in
> repsonse to what seems to be a cyclic mania for scripting languages, and
> the most recent round of enthusiasm regarding Groovy, Ruby, Jython,
> PNuts, Nice etc etc.  These all seem like fun projects, and potentially
> useful tools.  However, I think BeanShell has some specific potential
> for use in conventional Java software that sets it apart from all those
> other language projects, and it's exciting.
>
> >When properly thought through, things like list and map literals and
named
> >parameters can actually make code _more_ readable and easier to maintain.
> >There is definitely a correlation between ease of comprehension and
> >syntactic economies.  Do you find:
> >
> >    people = ["dave", "pat", "dan"];
> >
> >Difficult to read?  Does this increase maintenance pain in any way?
> >
> I like some of the extra syntax features of BeanShell.  But BeanShell is
> pretty powerful, and it's probably pretty easy (and fun for the
> developers) to extend it with all sorts of extra language features, not
> just syntactic ones, but also stuff like mixins, invocation handlers,
> etc.  It can get pretty far beyond readability-enhancing "syntactic
> economies".
>
> My question is, willl BeanShell become a hotbed of dynamic
> object-oriented language experimentation? Will it become a powerful java
> source interpreter, with a framework for flexible integration with
> larger Java software systems?  Trying to achieve both of those things at
> once seems hard, and the former category has many competing projects.
>
> There I go again, sounding adamant.  Oops :-)
>
> -Dave
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
> Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
> See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
> http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn
> _______________________________________________
> Beanshell-users mailing list
> Beanshell-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-users
>



-------------------------------------------------------
The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn