Re: Status of project and adding 1.5 generics
"David A. Lee" <[email protected]> Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:01:07 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.java.beanshell.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5518488757688022769== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C959CB.E88763F0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C959CB.E88763F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mine as well. I use BeanShell in a production environment for years and = am also worried about its "support". Not that I'm expecting free labor, or even active development by = volunteers, but it is worrisome that known bugs or future bugs may bite me. I do have the source so I could fix things myself, but its a bit = unsettling. I like the idea of the beanshell2 fork on google, and have contibuted to = it in the past. But the goals of that branch differ from mine ... or atleast *may* = differ in the future. I dont want enhancements, or refactoring of the code, simply stability = and possible extreme bug fixes. But again, I'm not expecting someone else to do my job. But also I = dont want my job to be bug fixing an existing library either !:) I'm considering shifting over to "pure java" by natively invoking the = javac compiler, loading the .class files and executing them=20 with reflection. The syntax wont be as nice, and its a non-trivial job = to implement this, but in the long run it might be a better architecture then relying on an 'abandoned' platform no matter how good = that is. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary Furash=20 To: Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [Beanshell-dev] Status of project and adding 1.5 generics Your experience. matches my own. Groovy became its own language. = Beanshell as really an ideal scripting language. We used it extensively = at my old shop and it held up beautifully. Pat did a great job and then = had to move on for whatever reason. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Paul Reavis <[email protected]> = wrote: On Dec 8, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Paul Landes wrote: > Is there anyone attached to beanshell for JDE critical = functionality? > Again, I'm a huge fan of it, but not if it isn't maintained. We use it extensively at Partner Software. It's the primary = scripting language for our platform (a sort of gis viewer on steroids with accompanying application server). I have been concerned about beanshell's lack of support for some = time. We originally used Jython (back when it was the only scripting language for Java), then played with Groovy, and finally settled on BeanShell. My primary requirement was that it be more or less syntactically identical to Java, so that I could easily port code to and from Java, and so that people starting in scripting could = migrate to "real" Java development without too much change shock. Jython was adrift for awhile but now seems actively maintained. I = have no problem with Jython or Python per se but I find it difficult to = go back and forth between it and Java - they are syntactically close enough to make it easy to screw up. I liked Groovy initially but it started wandering off weirdly for awhile, then they made the decision to make it very different from Java so I lost interest. I have cracked open the BeanShell code and fixed some of the issues. It's not terribly well written and has some modularity issues; I had to hack in some support for a sort of compile-once-run-often model = to improve performance - our system tends to have lots of small scripts that get executed often. And as others have mentioned it would be = nice to get 1.5 and 1.6 features in. I did add vararg support though it's not perfect. Nowadays there are any number of scripting languages one can code = in; I've made the support in our platform modular so it supports bison, jython, jruby, beanshell, stringtemplate and pretty much any other implementation of the Java scripting framework or even custom ones = if you can implement a simple interface. But I still like the idea of a very Java-like scripting language. Considering our investment in it so far, I would be willing to adopt the project and work on getting a new version out, especially with those fixes I feel need to be in there. I don't have tons of time, however, and I can't guarantee that I would push the code very aggressively. By and large it works well for us. My goals would be: 1) stability 2) performance 3) adherence to Java syntax wherever possible I am not at all interested in custom syntax, extension frameworks = like Grails, etc. And with all due respect to Pat, I've always thought the name was = silly. = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, = Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to = help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at = http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.c= om/ _______________________________________________ Beanshell-developers mailing list Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-developers --=20 Gary Furash, 602-561-9057, [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, = Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to = help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at = http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.c= om/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Beanshell-developers mailing list Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-developers ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C959CB.E88763F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16735" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Mine as well. I use BeanShell in a production=20 environment for years and am also worried about its = "support".</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Not that I'm expecting free labor, or even active = development=20 by volunteers,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>but it is worrisome that known bugs or future bugs = may bite=20 me.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I do have the source so I could fix things myself, = but its a=20 bit unsettling.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I like the idea of the beanshell2 fork on google, = and have=20 contibuted to it in the past.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But the goals of that branch differ from mine ... or = atleast=20 *may* differ in the future.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I dont want enhancements, or refactoring of the = code, simply=20 stability and possible extreme bug fixes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But again, I'm not expecting someone else to do my=20 job. But also I dont want my job to be bug fixing an = existing=20 library either !:)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm considering shifting over to "pure java" by = natively=20 invoking the javac compiler, loading the .class files and executing them = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>with reflection. The syntax wont be as = nice, and=20 its a non-trivial job to implement this, but in the long run it might be = a=20 better</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>architecture then relying on an 'abandoned' platform = no matter=20 how good that is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [email protected] = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Gary=20 Furash</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3DBeanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org=20 = href=3D"mailto:Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org">Beanshell-deve= [email protected]</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 09, = 2008 12:53=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Beanshell-dev] = Status of=20 project and adding 1.5 generics</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Your experience. matches my own. Groovy became = its own=20 language. Beanshell as really an ideal scripting language. = We used=20 it extensively at my old shop and it held up beautifully. Pat = did a=20 great job and then had to move on for whatever reason.<BR><BR> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Paul Reavis = <SPAN=20 dir=3Dltr><<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>></SPAN> = wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: = #ccc 1px solid"> <DIV class=3DIh2E3d><BR>On Dec 8, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Paul Landes=20 wrote:<BR><BR>> Is there anyone attached to beanshell for JDE = critical=20 functionality?<BR>> Again, I'm a huge fan of it, but not if it = isn't=20 maintained.<BR><BR></DIV>We use it extensively at Partner Software. = It's the=20 primary scripting<BR>language for our platform (a sort of gis viewer = on=20 steroids with<BR>accompanying application server).<BR><BR>I have = been=20 concerned about beanshell's lack of support for some time.<BR>We = originally=20 used Jython (back when it was the only scripting<BR>language for = Java), then=20 played with Groovy, and finally settled on<BR>BeanShell. My primary=20 requirement was that it be more or less<BR>syntactically identical = to Java,=20 so that I could easily port code to<BR>and from Java, and so that = people=20 starting in scripting could migrate<BR>to "real" Java development = without=20 too much change shock.<BR><BR>Jython was adrift for awhile but now = seems=20 actively maintained. I have<BR>no problem with Jython or Python per = se but I=20 find it difficult to go<BR>back and forth between it and Java - they = are=20 syntactically close<BR>enough to make it easy to screw up.<BR><BR>I = liked=20 Groovy initially but it started wandering off weirdly for<BR>awhile, = then=20 they made the decision to make it very different from<BR>Java so I = lost=20 interest.<BR><BR>I have cracked open the BeanShell code and fixed = some of=20 the issues.<BR>It's not terribly well written and has some = modularity=20 issues; I had<BR>to hack in some support for a sort of=20 compile-once-run-often model to<BR>improve performance - our system = tends to=20 have lots of small scripts<BR>that get executed often. And as others = have=20 mentioned it would be nice<BR>to get 1.5 and 1.6 features in. I did = add=20 vararg support though it's<BR>not perfect.<BR><BR>Nowadays there are = any=20 number of scripting languages one can code in;<BR>I've made the = support in=20 our platform modular so it supports bison,<BR>jython, jruby, = beanshell,=20 stringtemplate and pretty much any other<BR>implementation of the = Java=20 scripting framework or even custom ones if<BR>you can implement a = simple=20 interface. But I still like the idea of a<BR>very Java-like = scripting=20 language.<BR><BR>Considering our investment in it so far, I would be = willing=20 to adopt<BR>the project and work on getting a new version out, = especially=20 with<BR>those fixes I feel need to be in there. I don't have tons of = time,<BR>however, and I can't guarantee that I would push the code=20 very<BR>aggressively. By and large it works well for us. My goals = would=20 be:<BR>1) stability<BR>2) performance<BR>3) adherence to Java syntax = wherever possible<BR><BR>I am not at all interested in custom = syntax,=20 extension frameworks like<BR>Grails, etc.<BR><BR>And with all due = respect to=20 Pat, I've always thought the name was silly.<BR> <DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV=20 = class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------= --------------------------------<BR>SF.Net=20 email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, = Nevada.<BR>The=20 future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 = to=20 help<BR>pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register = at<BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.vi= sitmix.com/"=20 = target=3D_blank>http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http:/= /2009.visitmix.com/</A><BR>______________________________________________= _<BR>Beanshell-developers=20 mailing list<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org">Beanshell-deve= [email protected]</A><BR><A=20 = href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-developers= "=20 = target=3D_blank>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-de= velopers</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=20 clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>Gary Furash, 602-561-9057, <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>= <BR> <P> <HR> = <P></P>------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------<BR>SF.Net=20 email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, = Nevada.<BR>The=20 future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to=20 help<BR>pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register=20 = at<BR>http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visi= tmix.com/ <P> <HR> = <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Beanshell-devel= opers=20 mailing=20 = list<BR>Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org<BR>https://lists.sourc= eforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-developers<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H= TML> ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C959CB.E88763F0-- --===============5518488757688022769== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ --===============5518488757688022769== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Beanshell-developers mailing list Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/beanshell-developers --===============5518488757688022769==--