Re: BeanShell alternatives (was Re: Status of projectand adding 1.5 generics)

Resend...reply and reply all gets me on the different lists...

You guys are touching on the general premise of open-source. I see this a lot. Folks want to use open-source because they have determined that they can always take the library and keep it going if the original authors do not or they can fix bugs, though in reality this is not often the case. Seems like the perfect opportunity. Your companies can take over the development of BeanShell. 

I have used it in one project which isn't used any more, but it has always been an interested of mine which is why I'm still on the list. It worked good to allow pluggable scripts to change the environment after deployment. Some classloader issues could be addressed to make it actually able to reload classes from extra .jar files etc and any other issues you guys have. Looks like the project is in need of shepards at this point versus those jumping overboard, and the only ones who are going to do that are those with a real interest and reason to keep it alive. Is that you?

I have seen the beanshell2 fork. The thing I didn't like the most is that it did away with loading classes and things from .java files. So, if you have classpath you want to supplement with .java files versus just .class files you can no longer do that, and it is now just a scripting environment instead of having that extra handy feature, or at least that is what I got out of glancing over the change logs and diffs. You all may be able to locate Pat and get everything handed over to you or your companies and partner on it. Like I said, I see you have a need and a business interest...at the time I don't, but I might be able to contribute some patches here or there.

Wade

==================
Wade Chandler, CCE
Software Engineer and Developer, Certified Forensic Computer Examiner, NetBeans Dream Team Member, and NetBeans Board Member
http://www.certified-computer-examiner.com
http://wiki.netbeans.org/wiki/view/NetBeansDreamTeam
http://www.netbeans.org



----- Original Message ----
> From: David A. Lee <[email protected]>
> To: Paul Reavis <[email protected]>; [email protected]
> Cc: Beanshell-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org; [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Beanshell-dev] BeanShell alternatives (was Re: Status of projectand adding 1.5 generics)
> 
> I talked with my partner today and we decided to stay with BeanShell.
> We've been using it for several years in production and it would be 
> difficult to extract,
> and there's no compelling reason to change except the "FUD" of it being "not 
> supported".
> That's still a concern but not big enough to cause us to want to toss it.
> We have the source and the know-how if we need to spot-fix something ...
> In fact even today I'm integrating in BSH support to our other product line 
> under the philosophy that sharing the same technology across products is a 
> good thing.
> 
> So not only is BSH alive and well ... but its being continued in new 
> projects .. atleast in my shop.
> Given that I would LOVE some kind of semi-active semi-official handover of 
> the codebase to dedicated maintainers, and volunteer to be one of them.
> the beanshell2 google fork is a good thing, I have contributed to it in the 
> past, but I think its goals are different then what I suggest.  I suggest a 
> fork who's #1 main goal is stability and minimum changes.  Bug fixes only 
> ... and MAYBE a path towards new java syntax support ... but not new 
> features, and heavily focused on maintaining legacy use.  I think thats a 
> fundamentally different goal then a "new and better beanshell" which is also 
> a good goal ... but not the one I'm most interested in personally.   To 
> achieve this goal I suspect will require some kind of "committee" so that no 
> individual is tempted to make changes without consensus or oversight.  Of 
> course that slows things down and is inefficient ... but then that's the 
> point.
> 
> 
> At one point bsh was approved for JSR 274
> http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=274
> 
> but that seems to have had no action in almost 4 years so I suspect its safe 
> to call it dead.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> David A. Lee
> [email protected]
> http://www.calldei.com
> ------------------------------------------------
> David A. Lee
> CTO
> Nexstra, Inc.
> dlee-qNp/[email protected]
> office: 812-482-5224
> cell: 812-827-0743
> www.nexstra.com
> 
> 
> > We will still need legacy support for BeanShell, perhaps for years.
> > Also, looking at our experience with Jython and Groovy, I may have
> > been too hasty on both to assume they were dying. Open source projects
> > tend to live forever in some form or another and if there is
> > sufficient interest we can revive BeanShell. I see no inherent
> > problems with it as it stands now, but without regular releases and
> > keeping up with Java it will be perceived as a dead end.
> >
> 
> 
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