Re: UI toolkit for the future Modeler

I thought about a web app (non-Electron) in the past, too, and it just
seemed even clunkier. For example, I would really like the ability to have
the same model open in multiple windows, so I could see different parts at
the same time. Doing that in a browser window would be awkward at best and
hard to sync changes between windows. Plus, how do you really launch the
app? Command-line only? Shell scripts? On the Mac especially, you'd not
have the custom menus or app icons.

JavaFX + Scene Builder to edit the FXML still seems the "sane" option to
me. Not that there is a lot of sanity. Java gave up on the desktop a long
time ago. Kind of sad because Sun worked with NeXT in creating OpenStep and
could've made Java's UI OpenStep-based, instead of AWT and then Swing. In
some ways, OpenStep is still alive in macOS and iOS. And UI apps in Java
leave us wanting.

mrg

PS. I'm using Spring + Thymeleaf at work currently and I REALLY miss
Tapestry.


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 8:24 PM Lon Varscsak <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've thought about this before for apps...what if the app runs a web app
> (using whatever stack Andrus decides...maybe Tapestry) as the backend.  I
> don't know if that's possible.
>
> Also, on JavaFX...I wrote an app in it recently and it's decent. It still
> seems to be alive via openjfx.io, but I could be wrong.
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Michael Gentry <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I've considered an Electron app in the past. One negative is you lose
> > access to existing Java code, but perhaps there is a way around this I've
> > not seen.
> >
> > Examples:
> > - Existing code to read model XML files.
> > - JDBC drivers.
> > - Velocity (assuming we want to continue using Velocity templates).
> >
> > For anyone curious, I thought JavaFX was looking good before I lost
> > momentum:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/cayenne-modeler
> >
> > If you look carefully, you'll see some of the extra features in the
> > screenshots I was planning on adding, plus multiple windows (same project
> > or different projects) in the video.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 6:58 PM Lon Varscsak <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What about an Electron app? 😬
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 3:59 PM John Huss <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My 2 cents is that Java desktop UI is effectively dead. So switching
> to
> > > > another UI library that is either already dead or is dying isn't a
> > great
> > > > use of time. So I would try to change it as little as possible.
> > > >
> > > > For the tables with editable cells problem, my recommendation would
> be
> > to
> > > > move editing into a separate "inspector" area that is laid out as a
> > > > vertical form. Then the table can be read-only.
> > > >
> > > > For layout, I liked MigLayout when I did Swing apps back in the day.
> > But
> > > > that doesn't solve the problem with the existing usage of JGoodies.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:37 AM Andrus Adamchik <
> [email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I see a couple of problems with the current UI (beside it being
> > > > > subjectively old) :
> > > > >
> > > > > * We are effectively blocked from any significant evolution of the
> > > > > Modeler. Any time we want to do anything fancy (e.g. improve
> > usability
> > > of
> > > > > tables with editable cells, etc.), we quickly run into the wall
> with
> > > > Swing
> > > > > capabilities.
> > > > > * JGoodies library that we depend heavily upon for layouts is no
> > longer
> > > > > free/open source [1], creating risks for JVM upgrades.
> > > > >
> > > > > So modernization of the Modeler is a practical matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks like Fleet is not using Compose [2], but a lesser known
> > JetBrains
> > > > > Toolbox does [3]. And everyone admits it is still raw.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrus
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://www.jgoodies.com/downloads/libraries/
> > > > > [2] https://twitter.com/jetbrains/status/1465245360973131777 <
> > > > > https://twitter.com/jetbrains/status/1465245360973131777>
> > > > > [3]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2021/08/compose-multiplatform-goes-alpha/#toolbox
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2021/08/compose-multiplatform-goes-alpha/#toolbox
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 14, 2021, at 12:48 AM, John Huss <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe that compose UI library is used to build the new
> upcoming
> > > IDE
> > > > > > from JetBrains called Fleet. So I expect it will continue to be
> > > > supported
> > > > > > unless that product completely flops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't mind the current modeler UI. It's good enough for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 2:15 AM Andrus Adamchik <
> > [email protected]
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> A datapoint to our perennial discussion of technology to use for
> > the
> > > > > >> future CayenneModeler... With Swing being old and crusty, and
> > JavaFX
> > > > no
> > > > > >> longer supported by Oracle, perhaps we should be looking for
> > > something
> > > > > >> fresh. I just came across a new "Compose Multiplatform" desktop
> UI
> > > > > >> framework by JetBrains [1]. It is programmed in Kotlin and is
> > based
> > > on
> > > > > >> Google toolkit for Android. Their GitHub examples [2] are not
> that
> > > > > visually
> > > > > >> impressive, but I would imagine it is a matter of styling. A
> > > million $
> > > > > >> question is whether it will be around and open source in 10-15
> > > years.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Anyone knows anything about it?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Andrus
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose-mpp/
> > > > > >> [2]
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/JetBrains/compose-jb/blob/master/artwork/readme/apps.png
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>