Re: Fw: Question about GPL (semi off topic)
Christian Cryder <[email protected]> Mon, 16 May 2005 16:42:22 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.java.enhydra.barracuda.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070800090005050403010009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edward - that was VERY helpful, thanks. Christian [email protected] wrote: > > Hi Christian, > > 1. If you are not distributing GPL code, you have no GPL issues (But > see #4 below) > From the http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html, Section 0, > Paragraph 2: > > Activities other than copying, distribution and modification > are not covered by this License; they > are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not > restricted, and the output from the Program > is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the > Program (independent of having been made > by running the Program). Whether that is true depends on what > the Program does. > > > 2. Internal distribution is NOT distribution > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCInternalDistribution > Is making and using multiple copies within one organization or > company "distribution"? > No, in that case the organization is just making > the copies for itself. As a consequence, > a company or other organization can develop a modified > version and install that version > through its own facilities, without giving the staff > permission to release that modified version to outsiders. > > However, when the organization transfers copies to > other organizations or individuals, that is distribution. > In particular, providing copies to contractors for use > off-site is distribution. > > Even if not, you only have to provide the source to the people > who has obtained the executable. > They can't ask for the source if they don't have the exe. > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCCanIDemandACopy > If I know someone has a copy of a GPL-covered program, can I > demand he give me a copy? > No. The GPL gives him permission to make and redistribute > copies of the program if he chooses to do so. > He also has the right not to redistribute the program, if > that is what he chooses > > > 3. There were some issue about the output of the application > FAQ: > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCWhatCaseIsOutputGPL > In what cases is the output of a GPL program covered by the > GPL too? > Only when the program copies part of itself into the output. > > > 4. Here is where you may be in trouble.... It says you are ok. but > in the next paragraph it says you may not be..... > > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCUnreleasedMods > A company is running a modified version of a GPL'ed program on > a web site. Does the GPL say they must release their modified sources? > The GPL permits anyone to make a modified version and use > it without ever distributing it to others. > What this company is doing is a special case of that. > Therefore, the company does not have to release the modified sources. > > It is essential for people to have the freedom to make > modifications and use them privately, > without ever publishing those modifications. However, > putting the program on a server machine > for the public to talk to is hardly "private" use, so it > would be legitimate to require release of the > source code in that special case. We are thinking about > doing something like this in > GPL version 3, but we don't have precise wording in mind yet. > > In the mean time, you might want to use the Affero GPL for > programs designed for network server use. > > > All of the above is really a secondary question. > The real question is does you program come under the GPL just because > you use the MySql jdbc driver. > > Under the GPL, If your program uses a GPL library, then your program > becomes subject to the GPL (the reason for the LGPL, the Lesser GPL) > A. So the driver is under the GPL. If I make changes to the driver, > I have to release the changes to the driver. > B. If I use the driver, Is that like linking to the library? and > comes under the GPL. > C. Driver is not a library, and so my application is not subject to > the GPL. > > So back to the GPL FAQ's > > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLPluginsInNF > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCNFUseGPLPlugins > > Seems to suggest that only way option C would apply is if an exec or > fork is used to access/invoke the driver > > Finally, given that MySQL went through the effort to change their > Driver license from LGPL to GPL > (to "more easily differentiate between a proprietary user who should > buy a commercial license ") > would suggest that the applications would come under the GPL > > http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/faq.html > Previously, the MySQL client libraries were licensed under the > LGPL (the Lesser General Public License) > and now they use the GPL (the General Public License). What > prompted this change? > > MySQL's goal is to provide all its software under a free > software/open source license. The change from the > LGPL to the GPL for the client libraries was made in 2001 > during the development of MySQL 4.0 to help MySQL AB > more easily differentiate between a proprietary user who > should buy a commercial license ... > > > In Conclusion, > My opinion (I'm not a lawyer) is that if you use the MySQL driver, > your application becomes subject to the GPL license. > Given that the Barracuda is under the LGPL, no real issues with the > application. > So only issue is #4 above.... Using the application on a public web > site **MIGHT** be considered distribution in the future ... > > > Edward > > > > > *Christian Cryder <[email protected]>* > > 05/13/2005 11:54 AM > Please respond to christian.cryder > > > To: BarracudaMVC <[email protected]> > cc: > Subject: [barracuda] Question about GPL (semi off topic) > > > > > Hey, I am researching open source db's on Linux right now, looking > primarily at Postgress (BSD) vs. MySQL (GPL), and I am just wondering > about licensing issues. My understanding is that if you are simply > _using_ a GPL'd product (like a db), rather than actually modiying or > bundling it, GPL wouldn't apply to your code. But the MySQL site seems > kind of ambiguous in how they describe it. > > So to put it specfically - proprietary server based applications (ie. > vertical solutions) that use Barracuda, Tomcat, etc. and simply > store/retrieve data in a GPL DB would NOT be subject to GPL. Right? > > Anyone know of any resources out there that would explicitly confirm > (or deny!) that understanding? > -- > > Christian > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Christian Cryder > Internet Architect, _ATMReports.com_ <http://atmreports.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > /"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"//_ > _//_http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com_/ > <http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com/> > > > -- Christian ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christian Cryder Internet Architect, ATMReports.com <http://atmreports.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ /"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today" http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com/ --------------070800090005050403010009 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Edward - that was VERY helpful, thanks.<br> Christian<br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote: <blockquote cite="midOFFE07E0EF.50CC5CA2-ON88257003.006A7200-88257003.006A7AE6@KP.ORG" type="cite"><br> <font size="3">Hi Christian,</font> <br> <br> <font size="3">1. If you are not distributing GPL code, you have no GPL issues (But see #4 below)</font> <br> <font size="3"> From the <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html">http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html</a>, Section 0, Paragraph 2:</font> <br> <br> <font size="3"> Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they </font> <br> <font size="3"> are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program </font> <br> <font size="3"> is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Program (independent of having been made </font> <br> <font size="3"> by running the Program). Whether that is true depends on what the Program does. </font> <br> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">2. Internal distribution is NOT distribution</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCInternalDistribution">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCInternalDistribution</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> Is making and using multiple copies within one organization or company "distribution"?</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> No, in that case the organization is just making the copies for itself. As a consequence, </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> a company or other organization can develop a modified version and install that version</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> through its own facilities, without giving the staff permission to release that modified version to outsiders.</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> However, when the organization transfers copies to other organizations or individuals, that is distribution. </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> In particular, providing copies to contractors for use off-site is distribution. </font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> Even if not, you only have to provide the source to the people who has obtained the executable. </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> They can't ask for the source if they don't have the exe.</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCCanIDemandACopy">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCCanIDemandACopy</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> If I know someone has a copy of a GPL-covered program, can I demand he give me a copy?</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> No. The GPL gives him permission to make and redistribute copies of the program if he chooses to do so. </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> He also has the right not to redistribute the program, if that is what he chooses</font> <br> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">3. There were some issue about the output of the application</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> FAQ: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCWhatCaseIsOutputGPL">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCWhatCaseIsOutputGPL</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> In what cases is the output of a GPL program covered by the GPL too?</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> Only when the program copies part of itself into the output.</font> <br> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">4. Here is where you may be in trouble.... It says you are ok. but in the next paragraph it says you may not be.....</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCUnreleasedMods">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCUnreleasedMods</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> A company is running a modified version of a GPL'ed program on a web site. Does the GPL say they must release their modified sources?</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> The GPL permits anyone to make a modified version and use it without ever distributing it to others. </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> What this company is doing is a special case of that. Therefore, the company does not have to release the modified sources.</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> It is essential for people to have the freedom to make modifications and use them privately,</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> without ever publishing those modifications. However, putting the program on a server machine </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> for the public to talk to is hardly "private" use, so it would be legitimate to require release of the </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> source code in that special case. We are thinking about doing something like this in </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> GPL version 3, but we don't have precise wording in mind yet.</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> In the mean time, you might want to use the Affero GPL for programs designed for network server use. </font> <br> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">All of the above is really a secondary question. </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">The real question is does you program come under the GPL just because you use the MySql jdbc driver.</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">Under the GPL, If your program uses a GPL library, then your program becomes subject to the GPL (the reason for the LGPL, the Lesser GPL)</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">A. So the driver is under the GPL. If I make changes to the driver, I have to release the changes to the driver.</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">B. If I use the driver, Is that like linking to the library? and comes under the GPL.</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">C. Driver is not a library, and so my application is not subject to the GPL.</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">So back to the GPL FAQ's</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLPluginsInNF">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLPluginsInNF</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCNFUseGPLPlugins">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCNFUseGPLPlugins</a></font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">Seems to suggest that only way option C would apply is if an exec or fork is used to access/invoke the driver</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">Finally, given that MySQL went through the effort to change their Driver license from LGPL to GPL </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">(to "more easily differentiate between a proprietary user who should buy a commercial license ") </font><br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">would suggest that the applications would come under the GPL</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/faq.html">http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/faq.html</a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> Previously, the MySQL client libraries were licensed under the LGPL (the Lesser General Public License) </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> and now they use the GPL (the General Public License). What prompted this change?</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> MySQL's goal is to provide all its software under a free software/open source license. The change from the </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> LGPL to the GPL for the client libraries was made in 2001 during the development of MySQL 4.0 to help MySQL AB </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"> more easily differentiate between a proprietary user who should buy a commercial license ...</font> <br> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">In Conclusion, </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">My opinion (I'm not a lawyer) is that if you use the MySQL driver, your application becomes subject to the GPL license.</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">Given that the Barracuda is under the LGPL, no real issues with the application.</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2">So only issue is #4 above.... Using the application on a public web site **MIGHT** be considered distribution in the future ...</font> <br> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="2"><br> Edward<br> </font> <br> <br> <br> <table width="100%"> <tbody> <tr valign="top"> <td> <br> </td> <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><b>Christian Cryder <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a></b></font> <p><font face="sans-serif" size="1">05/13/2005 11:54 AM</font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1">Please respond to christian.cryder</font> </p> </td> <td><font face="Arial" size="1"> </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> To: BarracudaMVC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> cc: </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> Subject: [barracuda] Question about GPL (semi off topic)</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> <br> <font size="3">Hey, I am researching open source db's on Linux right now, looking primarily at Postgress (BSD) vs. MySQL (GPL), and I am just wondering about licensing issues. My understanding is that if you are simply _using_ a GPL'd product (like a db), rather than actually modiying or bundling it, GPL wouldn't apply to your code. But the MySQL site seems kind of ambiguous in how they describe it.<br> <br> So to put it specfically - proprietary server based applications (ie. vertical solutions) that use Barracuda, Tomcat, etc. and simply store/retrieve data in a GPL DB would NOT be subject to GPL. Right? <br> <br> Anyone know of any resources out there that would explicitly confirm (or deny!) that understanding?</font> <br> <font size="3">-- </font> <p><font size="3">Christian</font> </p> <p> <table width="100%"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="100%"> <hr></td> </tr> <tr> <td><font face="Arial" size="3">Christian Cryder<br> Internet Architect, </font><a href="http://atmreports.com/"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="3"><u>ATMReports.com</u></font></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <hr></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div align="center"><font size="3"><i>"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"</i></font><font color="blue" size="3"><i><u><br> </u></i></font><a href="http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com/"><font color="blue" size="2"><i><u>http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com</u></i></font></a></div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> </p> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"> <title>Foo bar rama</title> <p>Christian</p> <table border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="100%"> <hr align="left" size="1" width="350"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"><font face="Arial">Christian Cryder<br> Internet Architect, <a href="http://atmreports.com">ATMReports.com</a></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"> <hr align="left" size="1" width="350"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"> <p align="center"><i>"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"<br> <a href="http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com"><font size="2">http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com</font></a></i></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </body> </html> --------------070800090005050403010009--