Re: Fw: Question about GPL (semi off topic)
Christian Cryder <[email protected]> Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:44:30 -0600
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.java.enhydra.barracuda.general |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040506070202010407000506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought I'd pass along the rest of my discussion w/ the MySQL folks, so you can see how it ended. Interesting, to say the least. Thanks for all the input and insight in the previous responses... Christian Matt Fredrickson wrote: > Christian, > > We are not the experts of the GPL licenese and there are many > scenarios and business cases that can fall under the GPL. I suggest > that you talk to the GPL folks to see if what you are doing falls > under the GPL (they are the experts on the GPL license). If they > agree that your usage falls under the GPL, you are absolutely fine > using MySQL. > > Kind regards, > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Christian Cryder [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:42 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry] > > Sure. We have customers who are in a contractual arrangement with > us (details of those contracts aren't pertinent to this > discussion). They do not pay any fee to use our software; our > software is free for all our customers. They access it via a web > interface. The software runs entirely on our own internal servers. > We do not resell or redistribute our software code. Any GPL > libraries we use are "as is" - we don't modify them. > > That's basically it. > > Christian > > > Matt Fredrickson wrote: > >> Can you tell me more about your ASP model? Do you charge your >> customers a monthly or yearly fee? I may need to run your >> scenario past our legal department for a better explaination from >> MySQL. >> >> Regards, >> >> Matt >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Christian Cryder [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:52 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry] >> >> Matt Fredrickson wrote: >> >>> My apologies, you could use MySQL under the GPL license as >>> long as your application is open source. >> >> No, our application is not open source (which I was clear to >> state). We follow an ASP model, the code we write simply runs >> on our servers, and it may _use_ some GPL software (ie. >> Linux, other 3rd party GPL libraries, etc), but it does not >> modify or distribute them. It simply runs them. >> >> Now, from the GPL verbiage at >> http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html, I see this: "Activities >> other than copying, distribution and modification are not >> covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act >> of running the Program is not restricted" >> >> So just to be clear, all we are talking about is _running_ a >> GPL program on our own servers. We have a webapplication that >> uses various libraries (some GPL) as it handles user requests >> and generates web pages for them to view. But we never _copy, >> distribute, or modify_ any of the GPL code. >> >> So the question remains - why can I not use the GPL version >> of your software? I'm asking for a specific explanation based >> on the GPL license: why would my being an ASP have _anything_ >> to do with whether or not I can use the GPL version of your >> software? >> >> I really need to get a clear, solid answer here (otherwise >> there is no way I'll ever be able to convince anyone here to >> even consider MySQL). >> >> Thanks much, >> Christian >> >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* Christian Cryder >>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:25 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry] >>> >>> Hi Matt, >>> >>> Sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but I'm not sure I'm >>> following your answers. If the GPL has nothing to do >>> with my being an ASP, then why would my being an ASP >>> prevent me from using MySQL under its GPL license? >>> >>> Thanks for clarifying, >>> Christian >>> >>> >>> On 6/1/05, *Matt Fredrickson* <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I have a followup question (because I know I'm going >>> to get asked this by my peers here). Could you >>> explain to me how the GPL has anything to do with us >>> being an ASP? >>> It does not. >>> >>> In other words, what part of the GPL distinguishes >>> between whether a webapp on our servers is being >>> accessed internally (from local network) vs. >>> externally (via our clients)? Wouldn't we run into >>> the exact same issue simply by using Linux servers >>> (after all, Linux is GPL too)? >>> From my understanding, with the GPL, it does not >>> matter if it is being accessed internally or >>> externally (e.g. intranet versus public website). >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Matt >>> -- Christian ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christian Cryder Internet Architect, ATMReports.com <http://atmreports.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ /"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today" http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com/ --------------040506070202010407000506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Just thought I'd pass along the rest of my discussion w/ the MySQL folks, so you can see how it ended. Interesting, to say the least. Thanks for all the input and insight in the previous responses...<br> <br> Christian<br> <br> <br> Matt Fredrickson wrote: <blockquote cite="mid001a01c5677c$3eabf6b0$0300a8c0@matthew" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <title>Message</title> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1498" name="GENERATOR"> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Christian,</font></span></div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">We are not the experts of the GPL licenese and there are many scenarios and business cases that can fall under the GPL. I suggest that you talk to the GPL folks to see if what you are doing falls under the GPL (they are the experts on the GPL license). If they agree that your usage falls under the GPL, you are absolutely fine using MySQL.</font></span></div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Kind regards,</font></span></div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="038555413-02062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Matt</font></span></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr"> <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br> <b>From:</b> Christian Cryder [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:42 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]<br> <br> </font></div> Sure. We have customers who are in a contractual arrangement with us (details of those contracts aren't pertinent to this discussion). They do not pay any fee to use our software; our software is free for all our customers. They access it via a web interface. The software runs entirely on our own internal servers. We do not resell or redistribute our software code. Any GPL libraries we use are "as is" - we don't modify them.<br> <br> That's basically it.<br> <br> Christian<br> <br> <br> Matt Fredrickson wrote: <blockquote cite="mid002201c566e7$bdc7beb0$0300a8c0@matthew" type="cite"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1498" name="GENERATOR"> <div><span class="274581420-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Can you tell me more about your ASP model? Do you charge your customers a monthly or yearly fee? I may need to run your scenario past our legal department for a better explaination from MySQL.</font></span></div> <div><span class="274581420-01062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="274581420-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Regards,</font></span></div> <div><span class="274581420-01062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="274581420-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Matt</font></span></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr"> <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br> <b>From:</b> Christian Cryder [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:52 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]<br> <br> </font></div> Matt Fredrickson wrote: <blockquote cite="mid001c01c566d8$25f7c0d0$0300a8c0@matthew" type="cite"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1498" name="GENERATOR"> <div><span class="171163018-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">My apologies, you could use MySQL under the GPL license as long as your application is open source.</font></span></div> </blockquote> No, our application is not open source (which I was clear to state). We follow an ASP model, the code we write simply runs on our servers, and it may _use_ some GPL software (ie. Linux, other 3rd party GPL libraries, etc), but it does not modify or distribute them. It simply runs them. <br> <br> Now, from the GPL verbiage at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html">http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html</a>, I see this: "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted"<br> <br> So just to be clear, all we are talking about is _running_ a GPL program on our own servers. We have a webapplication that uses various libraries (some GPL) as it handles user requests and generates web pages for them to view. But we never _copy, distribute, or modify_ any of the GPL code.<br> <br> So the question remains - why can I not use the GPL version of your software? I'm asking for a specific explanation based on the GPL license: why would my being an ASP have _anything_ to do with whether or not I can use the GPL version of your software?<br> <br> I really need to get a clear, solid answer here (otherwise there is no way I'll ever be able to convince anyone here to even consider MySQL).<br> <br> Thanks much,<br> Christian<br> <br> <blockquote cite="mid001c01c566d8$25f7c0d0$0300a8c0@matthew" type="cite"> <div><span class="171163018-01062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="171163018-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Regards,</font></span></div> <div><span class="171163018-01062005"></span> </div> <div><span class="171163018-01062005"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Matt</font></span></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br> <b>From:</b> Christian Cryder [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:25 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]<br> <br> </font></div> Hi Matt,<br> <br> Sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but I'm not sure I'm following your answers. If the GPL has nothing to do with my being an ASP, then why would my being an ASP prevent me from using MySQL under its GPL license?<br> <br> Thanks for clarifying,<br> Christian<br> <br> <br> <div><span class="gmail_quote">On 6/1/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Matt Fredrickson</b> <<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</span> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><span class="q"> <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">I have a followup question (because I know I'm going to get asked this by my peers here). Could you explain to me how the GPL has anything to do with us being an ASP? </font></font></span></div> </span> <div><span><font size="+0"><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">It does not.</font></font></span></div> <span class="q"> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">In other words, what part of the GPL distinguishes between whether a webapp on our servers is being accessed internally (from local network) vs. externally (via our clients)? Wouldn't we run into the exact same issue simply by using Linux servers (after all, Linux is GPL too)?</font></font></span></div> </span> <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">From my understanding, with the GPL, it does not matter if it is being accessed internally or externally (e.g. intranet versus public website).</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Regards,</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Courier New" size="2">Matt</font></span></div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"> <title>Foo bar rama</title> <p>Christian</p> <table border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="100%"> <hr align="left" size="1" width="350"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"><font face="Arial">Christian Cryder<br> Internet Architect, <a href="http://atmreports.com">ATMReports.com</a></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"> <hr align="left" size="1" width="350"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="100%"> <p align="center"><i>"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"<br> <a href="http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com"><font size="2">http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com</font></a></i></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </body> </html> --------------040506070202010407000506--