Re: Project activity

Christian Cryder <[email protected]> Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:04:22 -0600
Newsgroups gmane.comp.java.enhydra.barracuda.general
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Hi Xavi,

I am part of the Barracuda team, so I can comment from that perspective. 
First, James is quite right in analyzing Barracuda's deficiencies: the 
learning curve is steep, it hasn't had a lot of press (not since Lutris 
went under). So you should definitely take his advice and check out 
these other projects (but you should always do that anyway - just part 
of due diligence).

Ok, now that I've given you the paint-it-as-bleak-as-I-can part, I'll 
offer up the here's-where-things-look-good side. First, Barracuda is 
feauture rich and very, very stable. We haven't done a major release for 
a while, but if you look at the cvs archives you will see that there has 
been a lot happening (and there are still quite a few things in the 
works). The reason we haven't done a 2.0 release yet is basically 
because most people who are using it are working off the head (and I 
understand that makes some people nervous, so I am not saying we don't 
need to get a new build out - I am just pointing out that it wouldn't 
even be possible to work on the head of many projects - Barracuda works 
quite well this way because its very stable, and when we find problems 
we fix them quickly).

In terms of developer base, things have definitely shrunk since the 
glory days at Lutris when I got paid to sit around and facilitate the 
community. Now I get paid to sit around and develop apps that use 
Barracuda (and I'm going through grad school at the same time to boot) - 
so what that means is that I don't have a lot of time to work on the 
"making the framework easier to use". That's definitely something I'd 
like to do - and it may well be something I get to focus on over the 
next 3 months - but that's not for sure yet. The main point here is just 
that our experience is where most other Barracuda users are right now: 
busy building apps that use Barracuda. Since the framework is stable and 
relatively feature complete (it's not lacking in any functional areas), 
you don't see a lot of activity on the list, at least not from people 
who already know how to use it.

In terms of "will the project die" I think the answer is "no" - at least 
not for us, at least not for quite a while. We have a very large 
production app that uses Barracuda, and I don't see us changing from 
that any time soon (over the next 3-5 years). So we are very committed 
to sticking with Barracuda, which means the project itself is going to 
be there for some time. And we're not alone - there are others who are 
using it too (although the numbers are fewer than they were in the past).

So the big issue for you is really going to be a) does Barracuda provide 
the best architectural solution for you, and b) do you want to deal with 
the learning curve - it's not THAT huge now, and we do have a decent 
sample application to start from, so we're not talking months here; 
probably just a couple of weeks to figure things out, probably less if 
you have decent folks learning it. One of the best ways to decide if it 
fits architecturally is to think about the size of your application - 
the bigger it is, and the more maintainable it needs to be (from a 
developer perspective), the better Barracuda will be for you. Throw in a 
requirement for multiple languages and security, and I think Barracuda 
strongly outperforms anything else I've seen.

Of course, I'm biased since I helped develop it - so ultimately you'll 
have to decide for yourself. Hopefully this helps paint a realistic 
picture of where things are at. We can certainly answer any questions 
you might have as you look more closely.

Christian



James Carnegie wrote:

> Hi Xavi,
>
> I'm not part of the Barracuda team, but our company has used Barracuda 
> in the past. Barracuda has a very steep learning curve and does not 
> have the exposure that lesser projects sometimes do, such as struts. 
> So the chances are that this project will die, even though the 
> technology is very good. It is good for large applications, but not so 
> good for small ones.
>
> I would recommend taking a look at Tapestry or Wicket. Both are 
> component based but are better supported than Barracuda. Struts is 
> basically JSP based and therefore suffers from many of the same 
> problems as JSP.
>
> Personally I think Wicket is the best framework for web applications 
> that is out there at the moment.
>
> Just me 2 cents.
>
>     /james.
>
> Xavi Bolivar Jansana wrote:
>
>> Hi, we're evaluating barracuda and struts to develope    the next 
>> generating of our core bussiness application. We like barrucada more 
>> than struts but you haven't released new versions of barracuda from 
>> 2004.
>>
>> Any problems with barracuda?
>>
>> Are you planning to discontinue the project?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Xavi Bolívar Jansana
>> TickTackTicket, S.A.
>> Director de sistemas
>> Rda. Sant Pere 27, pral 2
>> Barcelona 08010
>> Telf. : 933040750
>> Direct: 934454274
>> móvil : 618746146
>> Fax   : 934120124
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Barracuda mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://www.objectweb.org/wws/lists/projects/barracuda
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--
>Barracuda mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://www.objectweb.org/wws/lists/projects/barracuda
>  
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Cryder
Internet Architect, ATMReports.com <http://atmreports.com>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

/"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"
http://seelifedifferently.blogspot.com/


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Hi Xavi,<br>
<br>
I am part of the Barracuda team, so I can comment from that
perspective. First, James is quite right in analyzing Barracuda's
deficiencies: the learning curve is steep, it hasn't had a lot of press
(not since Lutris went under). So you should definitely take his advice
and check out these other projects (but you should always do that
anyway - just part of due diligence).<br>
<br>
Ok, now that I've given you the paint-it-as-bleak-as-I-can part, I'll
offer up the here's-where-things-look-good side. First, Barracuda is
feauture rich and very, very stable. We haven't done a major release
for a while, but if you look at the cvs archives you will see that
there has been a lot happening (and there are still quite a few things
in the works). The reason we haven't done a 2.0 release yet is
basically because most people who are using it are working off the head
(and I understand that makes some people nervous, so I am not saying we
don't need to get a new build out - I am just pointing out that it
wouldn't even be possible to work on the head of many projects -
Barracuda works quite well this way because its very stable, and when
we find problems we fix them quickly).<br>
<br>
In terms of developer base, things have definitely shrunk since the
glory days at Lutris when I got paid to sit around and facilitate the
community. Now I get paid to sit around and develop apps that use
Barracuda (and I'm going through grad school at the same time to boot)
- so what that means is that I don't have a lot of time to work on the
"making the framework easier to use". That's definitely something I'd
like to do - and it may well be something I get to focus on over the
next 3 months - but that's not for sure yet. The main point here is
just that our experience is where most other Barracuda users are right
now: busy building apps that use Barracuda. Since the framework is
stable and relatively feature complete (it's not lacking in any
functional areas), you don't see a lot of activity on the list, at
least not from people who already know how to use it.<br>
<br>
In terms of "will the project die" I think the answer is "no" - at
least not for us, at least not for quite a while. We have a very large
production app that uses Barracuda, and I don't see us changing from
that any time soon (over the next 3-5 years). So we are very committed
to sticking with Barracuda, which means the project itself is going to
be there for some time. And we're not alone - there are others who are
using it too (although the numbers are fewer than they were in the
past). <br>
<br>
So the big issue for you is really going to be a) does Barracuda
provide the best architectural solution for you, and b) do you want to
deal with the learning curve - it's not THAT huge now, and we do have a
decent sample application to start from, so we're not talking months
here; probably just a couple of weeks to figure things out, probably
less if you have decent folks learning it. One of the best ways to
decide if it fits architecturally is to think about the size of your
application - the bigger it is, and the more maintainable it needs to
be (from a developer perspective), the better Barracuda will be for
you. Throw in a requirement for multiple languages and security, and I
think Barracuda strongly outperforms anything else I've seen.<br>
<br>
Of course, I'm biased since I helped develop it - so ultimately you'll
have to decide for yourself. Hopefully this helps paint a realistic
picture of where things are at. We can certainly answer any questions
you might have as you look more closely.<br>
<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
James Carnegie wrote:
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">Hi
Xavi,
  <br>
  <br>
I'm not part of the Barracuda team, but our company has used Barracuda
in the past. Barracuda has a very steep learning curve and does not
have the exposure that lesser projects sometimes do, such as struts. So
the chances are that this project will die, even though the technology
is very good. It is good for large applications, but not so good for
small ones.
  <br>
  <br>
I would recommend taking a look at Tapestry or Wicket. Both are
component based but are better supported than Barracuda. Struts is
basically JSP based and therefore suffers from many of the same
problems as JSP.
  <br>
  <br>
Personally I think Wicket is the best framework for web applications
that is out there at the moment.
  <br>
  <br>
Just me 2 cents.
  <br>
  <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/james.
  <br>
  <br>
Xavi Bolivar Jansana wrote:
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">Hi, we're evaluating barracuda and struts to
develope&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the next generating of our core bussiness application. We
like barrucada more than struts but you haven't released new versions
of barracuda from 2004.
    <br>
    <br>
Any problems with barracuda?
    <br>
    <br>
Are you planning to discontinue the project?
    <br>
    <br>
Thanks.
    <br>
    <br>
Xavi Bol&iacute;var Jansana
    <br>
TickTackTicket, S.A.
    <br>
Director de sistemas
    <br>
Rda. Sant Pere 27, pral 2
    <br>
Barcelona 08010
    <br>
Telf. : 933040750
    <br>
Direct: 934454274
    <br>
m&oacute;vil : 618746146
    <br>
Fax&nbsp;&nbsp; : 934120124
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
--
    <br>
Barracuda mailing list
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.objectweb.org/wws/lists/projects/barracuda">http://www.objectweb.org/wws/lists/projects/barracuda</a>
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  </blockquote>
  <br>
  <pre wrap="">
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