Re: Barracuda: Moving the src directory

I could go either way on this issue. However, one caveat I can think of 
is that specific IDE's may not work as well if the WEB-INF folder is not 
in the root of your project. For example, I use Netbeans and when I 
mount the Barracuda root it successfully recognizes that it is a webapp 
because of /WEB-INF/web.xml which means it auto-mounts things like 
WEB-INF/classes and WEB-INF/lib. If this was moved to something like 
/web/WEB-INF this would no longer work. Just my $0.02.

-shawn

Ron Alsobrook wrote:
> I agree with Jake on both counts.  I too set up my projects as he describes 
> and it works great.  It makes more sense to me to build from the root 
> directory and have the web root stuff a directory below, rather than the 
> other way around.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jacob Kjome
> Sent: Monday 09 December 2002 7:58 am
> Subject: RE: Barracuda:  Moving the src directory
> 
> 
>>Ok, how about separating out the entire build area and building kind of
>>like I have things set up in Diez' contrib project.
>>
>>You end up having a structure like:
>>
>>Barracuda/
>>     build (created at build time)
>>     docs
>>     src
>>     src_generated (created at build time)
>>     src_mockups
>>     web/
>>         WEB-INF/
>>             jars
>>             lib
>>
>>The the "web" directory is pretty much just copied whole over to the
>>"build" directory.  When we want to do a "clean", all we have to do is
>>delete the build directory and the src_generated directory.  Nice and
>>easy.  Much simpler than having to remove various generated files that may
>>have been generated or copied to areas where we want to keep most things
>>and only remove a few things.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>I just think this would make builds easier.  It solves the locking issues
>>and keeps the source and the build completely separated.  This is how I do
>>*all* my personal builds.
>>
>>Also, I can live with storing Barracuda generated jars in CVS.  I still
>>don't like it.  A full build of Barracuda takes 47 seconds on my new
>>machine so it isn't such a big deal for me to do a clean build.  I *always*
>>do a clean build anyway since it isn't always guaranteed that the jars are
>>as up-to-date as the source.  The reason being that we are human and forget
>>to update the jars sometimes, even though we should.  It is a maintenance
>>issue.  Everything should build fine at all times anway.  Like I said,
>>nightly builds would be there if you want the jars and if you grab a tagged
>>version of the CVS (assuming it compiled successfully at one time) the
>>compile should be guaranteed to work resulting in working jars.  If it
>>provides benefits for you to keep them in CVS, I guess that's fine.  I
>>would get rid of them if the choice were completely up to me.  I don't know
>>of any other project that keeps non-third-party jars in CVS.
>>
>>Jake
>>
>>At 10:20 PM 12/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Jake,
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don't we lose all the history by moving the directory?  That
>>>>wouldn't be a good thing to happen.  If we can do it without
>>>
>>>Nope. We can do it without losing any history. Shawn's already tested it
>>>out to verify.
>>>
>>>
>>>>directory exists.  However, doesn't this limit the documentation
>>>>when linking to the relevant sourcecode?  You can't link to
>>>
>>>Yeah, that would be a drawback, although probably not a real major one. We
>>>could always link to the source through the cvsweb interface, so it'd
>>>still be there. Or we could copy the text up to the docs directories if
>>>need be. Let me think about it...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sounds fine, although you'll still have a problem with the <copy>
>>>>of the jar files from the lib-cvs to lib because if the file
>>>>dates on the files in lib are newer than those obtained via cvs,
>>>>they won't be copied over....or maybe that is a good thing if the
>>>>files in lib contain updates that don't exist in cvs?  Well,
>>>
>>>The basic idea is that the files never get copied over unless the dates
>>>are newer (which they would be if you rebuild the jars and update cvs).
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, either way, I don't like the idea of storing non-third-party
>>>>libraries in cvs.  I can see where people might like the idea of
>>>>being able to obtain the libs without having to perform a build,
>>>>but that is really what nightly builds are for.
>>>
>>>The biggest reason for doing it this way is so that you can tag a
>>>particular version of cvs and then check out based on that tag, and know
>>>that you have a running version of the system without having to do a
>>>compile. Which makes it reeeeeeally easy to update the version on the
>>>server. Otherwise you end up with a situation where you go to update the
>>>server, it does a
>>>clean/rebuild and something breaks, and now you have to figure out how to
>>>recover.
>>>
>>>
>>>>it brings up this whole issue
>>>>of the cvs "update" failing because it can't delete libs that are
>>>>stored in cvs and locked by the server.
>>>
>>>Actually, by using a lib-cvs approach, the jar files that are under cvs
>>>are never actually locked, so it really isn't a problem.
>>>
>>>We can figure out all the details as we go forward, but for now I just
>>>wanted to answer some of your basic questions.
>>>
>>>Christian
>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>Christian Cryder [[email protected]]
>>>Internet Architect, ATMReports.com
>>>Barracuda - http://barracuda.enhydra.org
>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: [email protected]
>>>>[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jacob Kjome
>>>>Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 2:40 PM
>>>>To: [email protected]
>>>>Subject: Re: Barracuda: Moving the src directory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Christian,
>>>>
>>>>See comments below...
>>>>
>>>>At 04:54 PM 12/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hey folks, as we get ready to move things over to the BarracudaMVC
>>>>server, we're going to be doing some much needed housecleaning. One of
>>>>the things I'd like to do is move the src directory down underneath
>>>>WEB-INF. It was orginally placed up in the content directory so that
>>>>people could browse it
>>>>online, but since the online cvs interface does a much better job of
>>>>handling that anyway, I'd like to move it down underneath WEB-INF. Does
>>>>anyone object to that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't we lose all the history by moving the directory?  That
>>>>wouldn't be a good thing to happen.  If we can do it without
>>>>losing the history, I really don't much care where the src
>>>>directory exists.  However, doesn't this limit the documentation
>>>>when linking to the relevant sourcecode?  You can't link to
>>>>anything existing beneath WEB-INF unless you front the webapp
>>>>with Another web server and don't enforce not being able to see
>>>>under WEB-INF.  And doing such a thing is not good practice
>>>>anyway.  I'm just wondering what the real benefits from moving
>>>>the src directory are?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Also, I'd like to move the build.xml stuff and the .bat files out
>>>>of the src
>>>>directory and into WEB-INF/bin, if nobody objects. The idea would be
>>>>then that you'd go to WEB-INF/bin to build the system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is probably no issue with this except for the concerns I
>>>>already outlined above.  Actually, if we are going to move things
>>>>around, we might want to create a "source" directory and then
>>>>beneath that have stuff like "bin", "java", "javascript", etc....
>>>>just to demarcate the different types of source that we have
>>>>instead of lumping it all in to one java-centric package structure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Finally, one additional change will be to create a WEB-INF/lib-cvs
>>>>directory, and to place all the jars that are under cvs in here,
>>>>rather than
>>>>in WEB-INF/lib. There would still be jars in the lib directory, but
>>>>they won't be under cvs. The reason for doing this is so that you can
>>>>update your
>>>>Barracuda installs from cvs _without_ having to shut down Tomcat (when
>>>>cvs updates, it tries to delete files before replacing them, and it
>>>>can't do that to files in /lib because Tomcat has them locked). So the
>>>>way it works then is you a) update from cvs and b) install (which
>>>>copies jars from WEB-INF/lib-cvs to WEB-INF/lib. We've been using this
>>>>strategy for about 4 mths now here at ATMReports, and its worked quite
>>>>well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sounds fine, although you'll still have a problem with the <copy>
>>>>of the jar files from the lib-cvs to lib because if the file
>>>>dates on the files in lib are newer than those obtained via cvs,
>>>>they won't be copied over....or maybe that is a good thing if the
>>>>files in lib contain updates that don't exist in cvs?  Well,
>>>>either way, I don't like the idea of storing non-third-party
>>>>libraries in cvs.  I can see where people might like the idea of
>>>>being able to obtain the libs without having to perform a build,
>>>>but that is really what nightly builds are for.  If we diligently
>>>>produced nightly builds, then storing the jars in cvs becomes
>>>>truly pointless.  It both unnecessarily increases the time to do
>>>>a "checkout" of the latest cvs and it brings up this whole issue
>>>>of the cvs "update" failing because it can't delete libs that are
>>>>stored in cvs and locked by the server.  There is no reason this
>>>>issue should exist.  I say lets completely get rid of any
>>>>Barracuda-built jars from storage in cvs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If anyone has any comments on this, please speak up! I'm not planning
>>>>on making these changes in existing cvs tree, but would put them in
>>>>place on the new server.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Let me know what you think.
>>>>
>>>>Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Christian
>>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>>Christian Cryder [[email protected]]
>>>>Internet Architect, ATMReports.com
>>>>Barracuda - http://barracuda.enhydra.org
>>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>>"Coffee? I could quit anytime, just not today"
>>>>
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>>>
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> 
> 
> 
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-- 
====================================
Shawn Wilson [[email protected]]
Software Developer, ATMReports.com
PH: 877-327-0873, FAX: 406-294-5806
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