Re: IKVM.OpenJDK.* License
Vijay Venkataraman <[email protected]> Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:27:18 +0530
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.java.ikvm.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CADGZG+ggcOVnBaAmF1F_rt57yEuNDXumgCzRHcObd4pebUreMg@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============5337927698091217146== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045eb1bc549c1d05595a9fb3" --f403045eb1bc549c1d05595a9fb3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Andrew, I agree it is not easy and i have been going back and forth on this. >> In short, document everything you do, insert the correct attributions where they need to be inserted, and make sure your client base is able to download the OpenJDK, IKVM, and IKVM.Classpath source and binaries themselves if they so wish. If you do these things, the odds of your product and company ever being a target of the GPL Mafia are slim. All these are normally mentioned. I will doubly make sure it is taken care absolutely. Thank for helping with all your suggestions. It is really important for me to know all of these. Kind Regards, VIjay On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Andrew Finnell <[email protected]> wrote: > Vijay, > > It is my pleasure. As someone who's had to deal with the subtleties of the > GPL v3, Affero GPL (meant to stop SaaS situations), LGPL (The sanest and > nicest of all licenses in the GPL world), and the Classpath Exception > clause for well over a decade, it's something I've reluctantly become well > versed in. Do keep in mind I am not an attorney nor a Copyright Judge. When > it comes to GPL, attorneys are not all that helpful in my humble opinion. > They in no way can guarantee a judge will rule one way or another if one is > ever sued; and the judge is all that matters in the end. Keep in mind that > just because the "Free" Software Foundation says something does not mean > that it is legally binding. Their grandiose overtures towards the OSS > movement versus their own "Free" Software movement is nothing but chest > pounding. > > In Tort law it is quite easy to file a suit; but not so easy to get in > front of a judge, even harder to win. Your due diligence is your safety > here. Write everything down. Find examples of others using the exact same > binaries you are using and make note of them as well. For if you are ever > in front of a judge, he or she will ask the Plantiff why they did not file > against [insert list of other companies]. This is why Companies sue over > simple matters; because if they don't they are essentially telling the > world it's acceptable to breach their trademarks, copyrights, etc. Look up > the Jello vs. People case as an example. > > In short, document everything you do, insert the correct attributions > where they need to be inserted, and make sure your client base is able to > download the OpenJDK, IKVM, and IKVM.Classpath source and binaries > themselves if they so wish. If you do these things, the odds of your > product and company ever being a target of the GPL Mafia are slim. > > On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 5:25 AM Vijay Venkataraman < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Andrew, >> >> Thanks for taking time to be very clear. >> >> >> >> Your product is using a pre-defined API that happens to be implemented by >> the IKVM.* Assemblies. If you were to use any of the classes generated by >> IKVM that were unrelated to the JDK (think of Sun's sun.* packages, but >> instead it being ikvm.* packages) then it would violate the Classpath >> Exception. The idea behind this exception is that one can literally replace >> all of the Assemblies/JARs with another implementation of the Java Classes >> and your program would never know. This is the 'at a arms distance that the >> Classpath Exception talks about." It is how businesses are able to release >> products using the OpenJDK as the JVM. All you are doing is using the IKVM >> translated version in the same way as the OpenJDK. >> >> If you have any doubts, take the OpenJDK yourself. Build it. Then run it >> through IKVM. It will hold to the same litmus test as the OpenJDK itself >> which is used by an eclectic and significant developer base. In short, >> you're fine >> >> >> Really appreciate you taking time provide the full context and clear >> explanation. I am sure, this mail thread will be useful to many others as >> well. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Vijay >> >> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 5:26 AM, Andrew Finnell <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> Vijay, >>> >>> This is the excerpt you are looking for: >>> >>> "CLASSPATH" EXCEPTION TO THE GPL >>>> Certain source files distributed by Oracle America and/or its >>>> affiliates are >>>> subject to the following clarification and special exception to the >>>> GPL, but >>>> only where Oracle has expressly included in the particular source >>>> file's header >>>> the words "Oracle designates this particular file as subject to the >>>> "Classpath" >>>> exception as provided by Oracle in the LICENSE file that accompanied >>>> this code." >>>> Linking this library statically or dynamically with other modules is >>>> making >>>> a combined work based on this library. Thus, the terms and conditions >>>> of >>>> the GNU General Public License cover the whole combination. >>>> As a special exception, the copyright holders of this library give you >>>> permission to link this library with independent modules to produce an >>>> executable, regardless of the license terms of these independent >>>> modules, >>>> and to copy and distribute the resulting executable under terms of your >>>> choice, provided that you also meet, for each linked independent module, >>>> the terms and conditions of the license of that module. An independent >>>> module is a module which is not derived from or based on this library. >>>> If >>>> you modify this library, you may extend this exception to your version >>>> of >>>> the library, but you are not obligated to do so. If you do not wish to >>>> do >>>> so, delete this exception statement from your version. >>> >>> >>> Standard IAMAL: >>> >>> At the end of the day no attorney can give you an objective answer as to >>> whether or not it's legal to ship your product with these libraries. The >>> original owner of the GPL source and binaries can always decide to litigate >>> for any reason they so choose. Keeping in mind that litigating does not >>> mean you are in breach of the contract, as that can only be determined by a >>> Judge. This is why your attorneys say "at a arms length" as that's the only >>> way to be absolutely sure. i.e. To never use any GPL copyleft code. >>> >>> Based on all my personal research, the Classpath Exception is not the >>> same as marking something as LGPL. However, in this case the Classpath >>> exception is perfect due to the subject matter; the Java Common Classes. >>> Your product is using a pre-defined API that happens to be implemented by >>> the IKVM.* Assemblies. If you were to use any of the classes generated by >>> IKVM that were unrelated to the JDK (think of Sun's sun.* packages, but >>> instead it being ikvm.* packages) then it would violate the Classpath >>> Exception. The idea behind this exception is that one can literally replace >>> all of the Assemblies/JARs with another implementation of the Java Classes >>> and your program would never know. This is the 'at a arms distance that the >>> Classpath Exception talks about." It is how businesses are able to release >>> products using the OpenJDK as the JVM. All you are doing is using the IKVM >>> translated version in the same way as the OpenJDK. >>> >>> Anecdotal evidence suggests no one has ever bothered to bring a suit >>> against an organization for using IKVM.* OpenJDK Assemblies in their >>> products. And even if they did, it still doesn't mean anything until a >>> Judge puts in a ruling. Even after THAT, it can be challenged. >>> >>> GPL is typically shunned in my organizations for it's quite difficult to >>> ever be certain of it's true intention. If one is ever curious as to the >>> groups "thoughts" regarding their License I suggest they read their >>> website. Their beliefs are black and white. No room for interpretation. >>> Those are just beliefs, not legally binding contracts. It i why there have >>> been so many versions of the GPL license. Not to make it MORE consumer >>> friendly, but to make it less. >>> >>> If you have any doubts, take the OpenJDK yourself. Build it. Then run it >>> through IKVM. It will hold to the same litmus test as the OpenJDK itself >>> which is used by an eclectic and significant developer base. In short, >>> you're fine. Lawyers will always choose the 'safe choice' over any risk. >>> They are risk adverse. And GPL is risky even if you obey it's convoluted >>> attributions 100%. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> Andrew T. Finnell >>> CTO / Rudram Engineering, Inc. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:09 AM, Vijay Venkataraman < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Steve, >>>> Thanks for helping me with this. >>>> I understand with this i can use >>>> *IKVM.OpenJDK.*(Beans, Charset ....)* in my product development based >>>> on the classpath exception that is provided on these dll's. >>>> I am again taking this matter with legal to close this. >>>> >>>> Once again thanks to everyone who chipped in with information on this. >>>> >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> Vijay >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Steve Hannah <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here is the Wikipedia article on how that linking exception works. >>>>> >>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 1:15 PM Vijay Venkataraman < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Michael, >>>>>> Thanks for letting me know about this. >>>>>> I have asked for legal advise and i am getting to hear that we cannot >>>>>> ship it as a part of our product. >>>>>> I hear that it should be used as "arms length" . I am trying to >>>>>> figure what that means. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Jeroen >>>>>> Sorry for pulling you in to this. >>>>>> If i get a clear answer, i can decide which way to go. Else i can be >>>>>> going in circles not get a valid answer for a long time. >>>>>> Pleas pardon me for this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can someone point, which section clearly identifies that i can use IKVM.OpenJDK.* >>>>>> . dll and ship a product, so that the product wouldn't result in being a >>>>>> GPL based? >>>>>> >>>>>> The files i am talking about are: >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Beans.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Charsets.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Corba.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Core.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Jdbc.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Management.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Media.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Misc.dll.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Naming.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Remoting.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Security.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.SwingAWT.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Text.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Tools.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.Util.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.API.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Bind.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Crypto.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Parse.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Transform.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.WebServices.dll >>>>>> IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.XPath.dll >>>>>> Version = 7.2.4630.5 - Part of https://sourceforge.net/ >>>>>> projects/ikvm/files/ikvm/7.2.4630.5/ikvmbin-7.2.4630.5.zip/download >>>>>> >>>>>> I am sure, many people could have had similar issues/questions. Any >>>>>> pointers to that will be of great help. >>>>>> >>>>>> This will decide how i will build my software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>> Vijay >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Michael Kay <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The license is GPLv2 with the Classpath Exception >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Classpath Exception allows you to use IKVM/OpenJDK as part of >>>>>>> your application without infecting your code with GPL. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Kay >>>>>>> Saxonica >>>>>>> (not a lawyer!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 29 Jul 2017, at 03:41, Vijay Venkataraman < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to develop commercial product that uses java component. >>>>>>> Will use IKVM to run it on .NET >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But i find that all the IKVM.OpenJDK.*.dll fall under GPLV2. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The java component needs utils, Core, AWT(Fonts), Swing components >>>>>>> for sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are there any alternatives to this or am i missing something obvious? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>> -VV >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ >>>>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ikvm-developers mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot______ >>>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>>> Ikvm-developers mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Steve Hannah >>>>> Web Lite Solutions Corp. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ikvm-developers mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- > > Regards, > Andrew T. Finnell > --f403045eb1bc549c1d05595a9fb3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Andrew,<div><br><div>I agree it is not easy and i have = been going back and forth on this.</div></div><div><br></div><div>>>= =C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">In short, document everything you do= , insert the correct attributions where they need to be inserted, and make = sure your client base is able to download the OpenJDK, IKVM, and IKVM.Class= path source and binaries themselves if they so wish. If you do these things= , the odds of your product and company ever being a target of the GPL Mafia= are slim.=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></sp= an></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">All these are normally menti= oned. I will doubly make sure it is taken care absolutely.=C2=A0</span></di= v><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">Thank for helping with all your suggestions. It is re= ally important for me to know all of these.</span></div><div><span style=3D= "font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">K= ind Regards,</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">VIjay</span>= </div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7= :08 PM, Andrew Finnell <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:andrew.finne= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wro= te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-= left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Vijay,<div><br></div= ><div>It is my pleasure. As someone who's had to deal with the subtleti= es of the GPL v3, Affero GPL (meant to stop SaaS situations), LGPL (The san= est and nicest of all licenses in the GPL world), and the Classpath Excepti= on clause for well over a decade, it's something I've reluctantly b= ecome well versed in. Do keep in mind I am not an attorney nor a Copyright = Judge. When it comes to GPL, attorneys are not all that helpful in my humbl= e opinion. They in no way can guarantee a judge will rule one way or anothe= r if one is ever sued; and the judge is all that matters in the end. Keep i= n mind that just because the "Free" Software Foundation says some= thing does not mean that it is legally binding. Their grandiose overtures t= owards the OSS movement versus their own "Free" Software movement= is nothing but chest pounding.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>In Tort law = it is quite easy to file a suit; but not so easy to get in front of a judge= , even harder to win. Your due diligence is your safety here. Write everyth= ing down. Find examples of others using the exact same binaries you are usi= ng and make note of them as well. For if you are ever in front of a judge, = he or she will ask the Plantiff why they did not file against [insert list = of other companies]. This is why Companies sue over simple matters; because= if they don't they are essentially telling the world it's acceptab= le to breach their trademarks, copyrights, etc. Look up the Jello vs. Peopl= e case as an example.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In short, document every= thing you do, insert the correct attributions where they need to be inserte= d, and make sure your client base is able to download the OpenJDK, IKVM, an= d IKVM.Classpath source and binaries themselves if they so wish. If you do = these things, the odds of your product and company ever being a target of t= he GPL Mafia are slim.=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D= "h5"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 a= t 5:25 AM Vijay Venkataraman <<a href=3D"mailto:vijay.venkataraman@gmail= .com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></di= v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:= 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Andrew,<div><br><div>T= hanks for taking time to be very clear.</div></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><= div><div><br></div><div>>></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"= >Your product is using a pre-defined API that happens to be implemented by = the IKVM.* Assemblies. If you were to use any of the classes generated by I= KVM that were unrelated to the JDK (think of Sun's sun.* packages, but = instead it being ikvm.* packages) then it would violate the Classpath Excep= tion. The idea behind this exception is that one can literally replace all = of the Assemblies/JARs with another implementation of the Java Classes and = your program would never know. This is the 'at a arms distance that the= Classpath Exception talks about." It is how businesses are able to re= lease products using the OpenJDK as the JVM. All you are doing is using the= IKVM translated version in the same way as the OpenJDK.</span><br></div><d= iv><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:12.8px">If you have any doubts, take the OpenJDK yourself. Build it= . Then run it through IKVM. It will hold to the same litmus test as the Ope= nJDK itself which is used by an eclectic and significant developer base. In= short, you're fine</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span><= /div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div>= </div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Rea= lly appreciate you taking time provide the full context and clear explanati= on. I am sure, this mail thread will be useful to many others as well.</spa= n></div></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><= span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Kind Regards,</span></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">Vijay</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b= r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 5:26 AM, Andrew Finnel= l <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote c= lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;= padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Vijay,<div><br></div><div>This is the ex= cerpt you are looking for:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"m= argin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p= adding-left:1ex">"CLASSPATH" EXCEPTION TO THE GPL<br>Certain sour= ce files distributed by Oracle America and/or its affiliates are<br>subject= to the following clarification and special exception to the GPL, but<br>on= ly where Oracle has expressly included in the particular source file's = header<br>the words "Oracle designates this particular file as subject= to the "Classpath"<br>exception as provided by Oracle in the LIC= ENSE file that accompanied this code."<br>Linking this library statica= lly or dynamically with other modules is making<br>a combined work based on= this library.=C2=A0 Thus, the terms and conditions of<br>the GNU General P= ublic License cover the whole combination.<br>As a special exception, the c= opyright holders of this library give you<br>permission to link this librar= y with independent modules to produce an<br>executable, regardless of the l= icense terms of these independent modules,<br>and to copy and distribute th= e resulting executable under terms of your<br>choice, provided that you als= o meet, for each linked independent module,<br>the terms and conditions of = the license of that module.=C2=A0 An independent<br>module is a module whic= h is not derived from or based on this library.=C2=A0 If<br>you modify this= library, you may extend this exception to your version of<br>the library, = but you are not obligated to do so.=C2=A0 If you do not wish to do<br>so, d= elete this exception statement from your version.</blockquote></blockquote>= <div><br></div><div>Standard IAMAL:</div><div><br></div><div>At the end of = the day no attorney can give you an objective answer as to whether or not i= t's legal to ship your product with these libraries. The original owner= of the GPL source and binaries can always decide to litigate for any reaso= n they so choose. Keeping in mind that litigating does not mean you are in = breach of the contract, as that can only be determined by a Judge. This is = why your attorneys say "at a arms length" as that's the only = way to be absolutely sure. i.e. To never use any GPL copyleft code.=C2=A0</= div><div><br></div><div>Based on all my personal research, the Classpath Ex= ception is not the same as marking something as LGPL.=C2=A0 However, in thi= s case the Classpath exception is perfect due to the subject matter; the Ja= va Common Classes. Your product is using a pre-defined API that happens to = be implemented by the IKVM.* Assemblies. If you were to use any of the clas= ses generated by IKVM that were unrelated to the JDK (think of Sun's su= n.* packages, but instead it being ikvm.* packages) then it would violate t= he Classpath Exception. The idea behind this exception is that one can lite= rally replace all of the Assemblies/JARs with another implementation of the= Java Classes and your program would never know. This is the 'at a arms= distance that the Classpath Exception talks about." It is how busines= ses are able to release products using the OpenJDK as the JVM. All you are = doing is using the IKVM translated version in the same way as the OpenJDK.<= /div><div><br></div><div>Anecdotal evidence suggests no one has ever bother= ed to bring a suit against an organization for using IKVM.* OpenJDK Assembl= ies in their products. And even if they did, it still doesn't mean anyt= hing until a Judge puts in a ruling. Even after THAT, it can be challenged.= </div><div><br></div><div>GPL is typically shunned in my organizations for = it's quite difficult to ever be certain of it's true intention. If = one is ever curious as to the groups "thoughts" regarding their L= icense I suggest they read their website. Their beliefs are black and white= . No room for interpretation. Those are just beliefs, not legally binding c= ontracts. It i why there have been so many versions of the GPL license. Not= to make it MORE consumer friendly, but to make it less.</div><div><br></di= v><div>If you have any doubts, take the OpenJDK yourself. Build it. Then ru= n it through IKVM. It will hold to the same litmus test as the OpenJDK itse= lf which is used by an eclectic and significant developer base. In short, y= ou're fine. Lawyers will always choose the 'safe choice' over a= ny risk. They are risk adverse. And GPL is risky even if you obey it's = convoluted attributions 100%.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div>= <div><br></div><div>Andrew</div><div><br></div><div>Andrew T. Finnell</div>= <div>CTO / Rudram Engineering, Inc.</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D= "m_5278400758627771912m_8253197530852027385HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_52784007= 58627771912m_8253197530852027385h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:09 AM, Vijay Venkataraman <spa= n dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D= "_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid= ;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Steve,<div>Thanks for helping me wit= h this.</div><div>I understand with this i can use</div><div><span style=3D= "font-size:12.8px"><b>IKVM.OpenJDK.*(Beans, Charset ....)</b>=C2=A0in my pr= oduct development based on the classpath exception that is provided on thes= e dll's.</span><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I am aga= in taking this matter with legal to close this.</span></div><div><span styl= e=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8p= x">Once again thanks to everyone who chipped in with information on this.</= span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><spa= n style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Kind Regards,</span></div><div><span style=3D"= font-size:12.8px">Vijay</span></div></div><div class=3D"m_52784007586277719= 12m_8253197530852027385m_4521539335757326720HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_5278400= 758627771912m_8253197530852027385m_4521539335757326720h5"><div class=3D"gma= il_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 9:10 AM, S= teve Hannah <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" targe= t=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D= "gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding= -left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Here is the Wikipedia article on how that link= ing exception works.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><a href=3D"https= ://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception" target=3D"_blank">https:/= /en.m.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/GPL_linking_exception</a><div><div class=3D"m= _5278400758627771912m_8253197530852027385m_4521539335757326720m_50559541265= 38994528h5"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 1:1= 5 PM Vijay Venkataraman <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><bl= ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #= ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Michael,<div>Thanks for letting me know= about this.=C2=A0</div><div>I have asked for legal advise and i am getting= to hear that we cannot ship it as a part of our product.</div><div>I hear = that it should be used as "arms length" . I am trying to figure w= hat that means.</div><div><br></div><div>@Jeroen</div><div>Sorry for pullin= g you in to this.</div><div>If i get a clear answer, i can decide which way= to go. Else i can be going in circles not get a valid answer for a long ti= me.</div><div>Pleas pardon me for this.</div><div><br></div><div>Can someon= e point, which section clearly identifies that i can use=C2=A0<span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.* . dll and ship a product, so that the = product wouldn't result in being a GPL based?</span></div><div><span st= yle=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.= 8px">The files i am talking about are:</span></div><div><div><span style=3D= "font-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Beans.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"f= ont-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Charsets.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"= font-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Corba.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Core.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-= size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Jdbc.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-siz= e:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Management.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-= size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Media.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Misc.dll.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Naming.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Remoting.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Security.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-= size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.SwingAWT.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font= -size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Text.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-si= ze:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Tools.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size= :12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.Util.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12= .8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.API.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12= .8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Bind.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:1= 2.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Crypto.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-siz= e:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Parse.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.Transform.dll</span></div><div><span style=3D"= font-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.WebServices.<wbr>dll</span></div><div><s= pan style=3D"font-size:12.8px">IKVM.OpenJDK.XML.XPath.dll</span></div><div>= <span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Version =3D 7.2.4630.5 - Part of <a href= =3D"https://sourceforge.net/projects/ikvm/files/ikvm/7.2.4630.5/ikvmbin-7.2= .4630.5.zip/download" target=3D"_blank">https://sourceforge.net/<wbr>projec= ts/ikvm/files/ikvm/7.2.<wbr>4630.5/ikvmbin-7.2.4630.5.zip/<wbr>download</a>= </span></div></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I a= m sure, many people could have had similar issues/questions. Any pointers t= o that will be of great help.</span></div><div><br></div><div><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">This will decide how i will build my software.</span>= </div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Kind Regards,</s= pan></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Vijay</span></div></div><di= v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 29, 2017= at 5:30 PM, Michael Kay <span><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" tar= get=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>The license is GPLv2= with the Classpath Exception</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://op= enjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html" target=3D"_blank">http://openjdk.java.n= et/legal/<wbr>gplv2+ce.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>The Classpath Exce= ption allows you to use IKVM/OpenJDK as part of your application without in= fecting your code with GPL.</div><div><br></div><div>Michael Kay</div><div>= Saxonica</div><div>(not a lawyer!)</div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">= <div><div class=3D"m_5278400758627771912m_8253197530852027385m_452153933575= 7326720m_5055954126538994528m_3761404332997644177m_3677404520015110955h5"><= div>On 29 Jul 2017, at 03:41, Vijay Venkataraman <<a href=3D"mailto:vija= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a= >> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_5278400758627771912m_8253197530852027385m_= 4521539335757326720m_5055954126538994528m_3761404332997644177m_367740452001= 5110955m_1795417975833623726Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div><di= v><div class=3D"m_5278400758627771912m_8253197530852027385m_452153933575732= 6720m_5055954126538994528m_3761404332997644177m_3677404520015110955h5"><div= >Team,<div><br></div><div>I would like to develop commercial product that u= ses java component. Will use IKVM to run it on .NET</div><div><br></div><di= v>But i find that all the=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-fami= ly:sans-serif;font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><font color=3D"#555555" face=3D"= sans-serif">IKVM.OpenJDK.*.dll fall under GPLV2.</font></div><div><span sty= le=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span= ></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-= size:13px">The java component needs utils, Core, AWT(Fonts), Swing componen= ts for sure.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-famil= y:sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb= (85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px">Are there any alternative= s to this or am i missing something obvious?</span><br></div><div><span sty= le=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span= ></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-= size:13px">Kind Regards,</span></div><div><font color=3D"#555555" face=3D"s= ans-serif">-VV</font></div><div><br></div></div></div></div> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----= -------------<br>Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world&#= 39;s most<br>engaging tech sites, <a href=3D"http://Slashdot.org" target=3D= "_blank">Slashdot.org</a>! <a href=3D"http://sdm.link/slashdot_____________= __________________________________" target=3D"_blank">http://sdm.link/slash= dot______<wbr>______________________________<wbr>___________</a><br>Ikvm-de= velopers mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= e.net" target=3D"_blank">Ikvm-developers@lists.<wbr>sourceforge.net</a><br>= <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/<wbr>lists/listinfo/ikvm-deve= lopers</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></d= iv> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----= -------------<br> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most<br> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! <a href=3D"http://sdm.link/slashdot" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://sdm.link/slashdot</a>______<wbr>__= ____________________________<wbr>___________<br> Ikvm-developers mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">= Ikvm-developers@lists.<wbr>sourceforge.net</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/<wbr>lists= /listinfo/ikvm-developers</a><br> </blockquote></div></div></div></div><span class=3D"m_5278400758627771912m_= 8253197530852027385m_4521539335757326720m_5055954126538994528HOEnZb"><font = color=3D"#888888"><div dir=3D"ltr">-- <br></div><div class=3D"m_52784007586= 27771912m_8253197530852027385m_4521539335757326720m_5055954126538994528m_37= 61404332997644177gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Steve = Hannah<div>Web Lite Solutions Corp.</div></div> </font></span></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div><br>------------------------------<wbr>------------------------= ------<wbr>------------------<br> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most<br> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! <a href=3D"http://sdm.link/slashdot" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://sdm.link/slashdot</a><br>_________= _____________________<wbr>_________________<br> Ikvm-developers mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">= Ikvm-developers@lists.<wbr>sourceforge.net</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/<wbr>lists= /listinfo/ikvm-developers</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> </blockquote></div></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88888= 8"><div dir=3D"ltr">-- <br></div><div class=3D"m_5278400758627771912gmail_s= ignature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p dir=3D"ltr= ">Regards,<br> Andrew T. Finnell</p> </div></div> </font></span></blockquote></div><br></div> --f403045eb1bc549c1d05595a9fb3-- --===============5337927698091217146== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot --===============5337927698091217146== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ikvm-developers mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ikvm-developers --===============5337927698091217146==--