Re: Micro-workflow engine suggestion

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the information and for the offer to help.

I think for me is really to parts to this: i) A
Business Process Manager (BPM) whose objective is to
implement business processes that spawn multiple
technologies and systems and interaction with
different people.  This is like the overseer that
business processes get done in the enterprise.  Now
ii) A micro workflow, what I mean by this is like a
light weight, indemponent (may fail in the middle of
the process without impacts in the large), whose main
objective is to carryout the flow of screens in a web
application.

I still have mixed feeling on the microworkflow one. 
What I think is a must is having a BPM engine based on
BPEL and activepbel.org seems to be a good choice.

Anyway,  I am still trying to come up to speed in
keel.  I will be asking more specific questions in few
days.

Thanks :-)

--- Jeff Richley <jeffrichley-/[email protected]> wrote:

> I think it would be very interesting to have a BPEL
> implementation.  Currently, the "language" of the
> workflow engine is XPDL.
> 
> It does, as Shash and Mike metioned, work as a sort
> of
> SuperModel.  The application calls the workflow
> model
> and it in turn calls many other models.  I would
> imagine that we could make it into a service.  We
> could talk about how the other workflows work.  
> 
> One thing that I did have problems with was the fact
> that most of the other engines didn't play nicely in
> a
> web environment.  OSWorkflow, in particular, kept
> reevaluating nodes in the workflow that had been
> passed.  There were some very odd ramifications. 
> That
> is why I wrote Red Workflow.
> 
> Let me know what you have in mind and I would be
> happy
> to help out.
> 
> Jeff Richley
> 
> --- Carlos Cardenas <juan_carlos_cardenas-/[email protected]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Guys,
> > 
> > Thanks a lot for the info.  It does make a lot of
> > sense to have app-workflow in the current keel.
> > 
> > However, I believe it may be a good idea to
> > formalize
> > the concept of a BPM in keel.  It does make a lot
> of
> > sense in a business environment to have this one.
> > 
> > It seems to me that using a BPEL based
> > implementation
> > of the BPM would be most useful, so we can
> > communicate
> > with other parts of the business areas exactly
> what
> > we
> > are doing for implementing a BP.  In this case,
> the
> > model would be there to fulfill the
> tasks/activities
> > of the BP controlled in the BPM.
> > 
> > As you guys say, this is quite unique and I see
> some
> > business value here.
> > 
> > Thanks also for the explanation on our internal
> > workflow engine.  I will be checking out soon the
> > source to understand app-workflow better.
> > 
> > BTW, for implementings the tasks/activities of the
> > BP
> > I'd like to use scripting that would bind the
> lower
> > level model components.  This kind of makes sense
> to
> > me.  I'd like to use groovy as the scripting
> > language.
> >  Is keel's current implementation of BSF ready to
> > handle groovy?  I'll check out the source.
> > 
> > Thanks 
> > 
> > --- Shash Chatterjee <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Mike/Carlos,
> > > 
> > > > Quick word of history: Keel's workflow expert,
> > > Jeff, is sometimes off
> > > > the list for a while, but I very much imagine
> > > he'll have some
> > > > perspective to share on Keel's existing
> > workflow.
> > > The workflow "service"
> > > > went away because workflow in Keel was
> "driving"
> > > the Model objects, and
> > > > was not a service called *by* the Models, so
> it
> > > became an application
> > > > (app-workflow), rather than a service.
> > > > 
> > > > Just wanted to toss in those 2c while I was
> > > thinking of it...
> > > > 
> > > > I think BPM-style workflow is a somewhat
> > different
> > > animal than the
> > > > app-workflow, but I'd defer to it's author to
> > say
> > > how different. Our
> > > > current workflow does have a very nice GUI
> > editor,
> > > though.
> > > 
> > > This is exactly right.  app-workflow is an
> > entirely
> > > different flavor of 
> > >   workflow than typical BPM engines;
> app-workflow
> > is
> > > used mainly to 
> > > chain multiple models and then to dispatch to
> > other
> > > models based on the 
> > > output of the preceding one.  I know Jeff
> started
> > > out by basing 
> > > app-workflow on OSWorkflow from OpenSymphony,
> but
> > > switched over to his 
> > > own engine (RedFlow) at some point.  I think if
> we
> > > started with a 
> > > service API, it would be possible to make a
> > RedFlow
> > > impl. of the 
> > > service.  RedFlow doesn't have support for
> > > persisting flow states, but 
> > > there (I think) are hooks for that to be added
> in
> > > pretty easily.
> > > 
> > > Shash
> > > 
> > > 
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> >
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> 
> 
> 
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