Chat transcript, 08:35 AM CDT

emolitor> morning
rainerh> hey there :)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: Release Plan for WW 2.2.3 (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61200)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: HOWTO Invoke an action (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61205)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: Action name / Namespace wildcards - URL parameters ? (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61207)
chatbot> New reply by Tor Egil Jacobsen: HOWTO Invoke an action (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61208)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: HOWTO Invoke an action (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61210)
chatbot> New reply by matt.jiang: XWorkList deprecated, but XWork 1.1 seems not take effect (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61211)
chatbot> New reply by matt.jiang: XWorkList deprecated, but XWork 1.1 seems not take effect (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61212)
chatbot> New reply by Ian Roughley: Action name / Namespace wildcards - URL parameters ? (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61215)
mrdon> hey nils
nilsga> Howdy!
nilsga> done with JavaOne for this year?
mrdon> yep
mrdon> good times
mrdon> long though
nilsga> any good parties?
mrdon> tons
mrdon> I made it to two sessions total :)
nilsga> ah....I envy you!!!
nilsga> hehe
nilsga> you held one as well?
mrdon> oh right, three :)
nilsga> hehe
nilsga> that's what so great about a conference....so many great sessions, and you really don't have to attend any of them!
mrdon> jason, patrick, and I somehow snuck into the web tier expert group meeting and had some fun :)
nilsga> hehe
mrdon> they were either pretty receptive or just wanted to shut us up :)
nilsga> lol
nilsga> too bad I missed it!
mrdon> do you know jsf at all?
nilsga> not much....
nilsga> I know what it is, and the basics
mrdon> I'm in the middle of implementing jsf inside action 2
nilsga> I do know it doesn't fit very well with JSP
mrdon> as a separate interceptor stack
mrdon> It is looking very doable to far...
nilsga> ok, so you're building a component stack on top of saf2?
nilsga> how would it work? No more actions?
mrdon> well, splitting the jsf lifecycle into interceptors
mrdon> nope, still have actions
mrdon> then the jsf rendering would be a custom Result
nilsga> what are the relation between the components and the actions?
mrdon> every url gets an action
mrdon> just like now
mrdon> then that action is made available automatically as a managed bean to the components
nilsga> ok, so the action is the "managed bean" glue?
mrdon> that's my direction anyways
nilsga> ah
nilsga> exactly :)
nilsga> makes sense
mrdon> I think it would rock to be able to use jsf components in action 2
mrdon> by just using a special result and interceptor stack
nilsga> sounds sensible
nilsga> what I do not understand about JSF is the phases....
mrdon> basically just a hard-coded interceptor stack
mrdon> that's it
nilsga> yeah,but the concept itself
nilsga> sounds like they just tried to force an alignment with the portlet spec
nilsga> it really doesn't make sense
mrdon> ah
nilsga> especially not in conjunction with JSP
mrdon> well, it fits really well into action2/ww
mrdon> I'd almost say they copied ww :
mrdon> :)
nilsga> hehe
nilsga> I guess it does
nilsga> the action and the result?
mrdon> yeah, all the lifecycle things and the result
mrdon> == interceptor stack and result
nilsga> I guess I haven't seen the "light" yet
nilsga> when it comes to jsf
mrdon> yeah, we'll see
mrdon> just started this effort really
nilsga> probably because it's so "generated" and "tool" focused
nilsga> ¨
nilsga> ping
mrdon> ok
mrdon> that was wierd
nilsga> dropped out for a bit....
mrdon> me too
nilsga> hm...
nilsga> odd...
nilsga> never thought a 20Mbit connection could be so slow....
nilsga> argh!
emolitor> so what fun did you raise at the web tier expert group meeting?
mrdon> let's see...
emolitor> ooooh, a list
mrdon> el enhancements: projection, type conversion, method invocation, etc
mrdon> ability to load jsp's from the classpath, a string, etc
emolitor> ahhh, so you want to make it usable
mrdon> there was one other patrick was harping on
mrdon> but I don't remember atm
mrdon> it went really well actually
mrdon> they are very open to better supporting other frameworks
mrdon> I was a bit suprised
emolitor> me as well.
emolitor> I still have the mentality that it was built by tool vendors for tool vendors
mrdon> it wasn't too bad
emolitor> but sounds like that isnt the case, or that they are moving on
mrdon> I think users just haven't been involved
mrdon> so the only ones that are are those that are paid to do so
mrdon> either by sun, an app server, tool vendor, etc
emolitor> nod
emolitor> conceptually its not a bad spec its just not easy to use...
mrdon> and the process is pretty open so others can join
mrdon> just few have
emolitor> hmmmm
emolitor> Did you guys commit to formally joinging?
mrdon> yeah, I'd still like to see more of a "real world" focus, using specs as a way to standardize proven technology, not try out new ideas
emolitor> yup
mrdon> I think we'll join the jcp and see where it goes
mrdon> patrick and jason were both interested in joining a few jsrs
emolitor> Nod, I just joined to move the JAva USB specs forward
emolitor> But thats another topic :)
emolitor> There is so much negative energy around the JCP but things are starting to change and its time to at least try to start embracing it
mrdon> yep
emolitor> Overall how was the feedback to SAF2 and from "outsiders"
mrdon> good
mrdon> I think we need to get something out there
mrdon> so it was a positive wait-and-see
emolitor> nod, I think your roller conversion is a great idea. Is that posted somewhere?
emolitor> I think stuff like that is golden, "Here is an existing app and here is what it took to convert it, etc..."
mrdon> yep
mrdon> although I think that's a ways off
emolitor> True, but it lends weight to a proof of concept
emolitor> Part of my presentation tomorrow to the VC's is about embracing change via opensource
emolitor> Using the WW/SAF2 merger/fork/future as one of the examples
emolitor> where competition in OS tends to be embracing vs competition in the closed source world which tends to be rejection based.
emolitor> (Dont use that, all of our products are better....)
emolitor> etc
emolitor> anyway off to finish slides.... ttfn
mrdon> good luck
chatbot> New reply by Peter Johnson: Action name / Namespace wildcards - URL parameters ? (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61229)
chatbot> New thread by cool9292: ognl get data to view page (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?threadID=31635)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: ognl get data to view page (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61264)
chatbot> New reply by cool9292: ognl get data to view page (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61270)
chatbot> New reply by tm_jee: ognl get data to view page (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61277)
chatbot> New reply by cool9292: ognl get data to view page (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?messageID=61279)
chatbot> New thread by Rakon: Help: How do I iterate and submit to the server? works with struts not ww (http://forums.opensymphony.com/thread.jspa?threadID=31674)

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