AW: AW: Fw: GPL / LGPL

Hello Per and all the others out there,

> We are 9 committers of which three are currently active 
> on a regular basis (myself, Leo and Wieslaw).
> In addition there are patches sent in from other developers.

How many time do you - nine/three committers - spend in a week for the
Ozone database project at an average? How frequently do these patches
arrive out of the community? They send them via e-mail, am I right?

What about your transaction engine? What kind of isolation level do you
support (read uncommitted, read committed, repeatable read,
serializable)?

What about client-server interaction? Do the persistent objects reside
on the server side or do you have some kind of client-side replicas?

Best regards,
Christian

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Per
Nyfelt
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2005 11:31
An: [email protected]
Cc: Christian Merenda
Betreff: Re: AW: [Ozone-users] Fw: GPL / LGPL

Wednesday 15 June 2005 10.42 skrev Christian Merenda:
> Thanks for your answers, Per and Kai! Now, the Ozone licensing is
> absolutely clear! Under these circumstances Ozone is definitely an
> option for us - we will think about it. :)

Great!

>
> Regarding a potentially integration effort, I've got two questions:
>
> 1. How many developers are involved in the Ozone project? Probably
there
> are only a few core developers...? Is that right? How many? Who? Have
> other people contributed little code to the Ozone database
additionally?
> How many are involved alltogether?
We are 9 committers of which three are currently active on a regular
basis 
(myself, Leo and Wieslaw). In addition there are patches sent in from
other 
developers. Once such a developers shows signs of commitment over time
we 
uncourage him/her to become committer with direct access to the CVS 
repository.

>
> 2. How does your mapping between objects and disk space work? I know,
> that you use some kind of serialization mechanism. 
Yes, we use the built-in Serialization mechanism as the base for Object 
persistance in Ozone.

> Nevertheless a 
> database system should know about pages ... As Ozone has no query
> facility do you optimize the object storage task in a way that nearby
> objects are stored on the same page so that navigation in an object
> graph is optmized?
>
Yes, related objects are stored in clusters. The current default
back-end 
storage engine (WizardStore) has been the storage of choice for the last
5 
years (ClassicStore, the original storage engine is currently broken).
There 
is also a variation of WizardStore called MagicStore with some
performance 
improvements compared to WizardStore. Leo is working on a new back-end 
(GammaStore) which will further improve scalability and performance. We
hope 
to have GammaStore ready to ship with 1.3. See ozone-dev mailing list
archive 
for more details on this.

Best regards,
Per


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Per
> Nyfelt
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Juni 2005 12:26
> An: [email protected]
> Cc: Kai Schutte; [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: [Ozone-users] Fw: GPL / LGPL
>
> These are good points. I think that it should be OK for anyone,
> commercial or
> not to create Ozone based applications without forcing them to comply
to
> any
> type of licensing restrictions. This is how i understand LGPL and this
> is why
> the public api (the one that the client i.e. the Ozone based app is
> using) is
> LGPL. However if modifications to the actual Ozone code is made these
> modifications should be given back to the community. Also if someone
> takes
> the Ozone codebase and decides to fork this fork should be open
source.
> This
> is why the Ozone core is GPL. This means in short
>
> 1. It is OK to ship commercial apps based on Ozone without having to
> open
> source the app. In fact I would encourage more commercial Ozone Based
> apps!
>
> 2. If changes to Ozone is needed for the commercial application those
> changes
> need to be either GPL or LGPL depending on if the change is in the
> public API
> or in the core. The best way for the commercial vendor to make sure
> improvements gets incorporated into the mainstream code is to get
> involved in
> the development of Ozone. We are in the process of figuring out a way
to
>
> receive donations (through the SourceForge donation system). This
would
> be
> another way to give back to the developers of Ozone and let them
benefit
> from
> some of the profit generated by a successfull commercial, Ozone-based
> app.
>
> Coming back to the questions posed by Christian Merenda:
> >Which license corresponds to which part of the database system?
>
> As explained above. Clients interact with LGPL code. The public (LGPL)
> api
> interacts with the Core, which is GPL.
>
> > >If you_re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no option
>
> for
>
> > >everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > >application.
>
> Sure it would. As long as you do not modify the Ozone code and only
> interact
> with the public api you're perfectly fine.
>
> > > We´re strongly contributed to Open Source and we´re planning to
give
> > > our work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it´s
> > > absolutely free to use in the Open Source Environment.
Additionally
>
> we
>
> > > will offer a proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the
> > > industrie. Can we do this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer
>
> the
>
> > > product under the LGPL?
>
> Yes you're code talks to the Ozone API which is LGPL. Thus linking to
an
> Ozone
> back end poses no restrictions on how you license your code (be it
GPL,
> APL,
> commercial or whatever)
>
> > > Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
> > > Ozone with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out
the
> > > maximum amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level
of
> > > abstraction ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
>
> Sounds interesting. Please elaborate!
>
> Best regards,
> Per
>
> Monday 13 June 2005 12.19 skrev Kai Schutte:
> > I recently asked MySQL directly about a similar question. The MySQL
> > server itself is GPL, and the server also can be compiled as a
library
> > that can be directly linked with other code. The 'connectors', ie
the
> > drivers which manage a connection to MySQL are also GPL, which means
> > that any application that you write that either links with the
library
> > version of the server or any of the drivers they provide must also
be
> > GPL, *unless* you purchase their commercial license. This also means
> > that if you write your own connector which handles a network
>
> connection
>
> > to the MySQL server, you do not need your code to be GPL nor
purchase
>
> a
>
> > commercial license, as your code doesn't link with anything GPL.
> >
> > The hitch with GPL is that anything that links to it must also be
GPL.
> > It is a violation of the license to link and LGPL code with GPL
code.
> > (Of course, if you're the author, you're allowed to do that, because
> > you're the only person who can sue yourself). Linking Bob's
>
> proprietary
>
> > code with Alice's LGPL code which links with Alice's GPL code is a
>
> clear
>
> > violation. The only way you can use a GPL database server with
> > proprietary code is through a network connection.
> >
> > Hence, if the product that Christian Meranda is working on would
>
> require
>
> > linking to GPL code (within the same application space) and this
code
>
> is
>
> > to be redistributed under the GPL, all is good. But, if they want to
> > resell a commercial license for their clients to use their product
>
> which
>
> > includes Ozone GPL code, that's obviously a violation, because
>
> Christian
>
> > Merenda is distributing his work under a different license which
links
> > to GPL code and the GPL doesn't allow that. The only solution here
is
>
> if
>
> > Ozone itself would be distributed under a different license.
> >
> > In my opinion, if Christian Merenda wants to sell his work which
>
> relies
>
> > on Ozone being in the same application space, aren't Ozone
developpers
> > entitled to some share of the funds? (ie, make a commercial license
> > scheme for Ozone).
> >
> > -kai
> >
> > (btw, I'm not an Ozone dev, I'm just thinking out loud :) )
> >
> > Gerd Mueller wrote:
> > >Begin forwarded message:
> > >
> > >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:25:14 +0200
> > >From: "Christian Merenda" <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: GPL / LGPL
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear sir / madam,
> > >
> > >on your website  <http://www.ozone-db.org/> www.ozone-db.org you
have
>
> to
>
> > >licenses _Ozone Library License_ and _Ozone Core License_. The
first
>
> is
>
> > >essentially based on the LGPL, the second one on the GPL.
> > >
> > >So I do not understand which license is the right one or better to
>
> say:
> > >Which license corresponds to which part of the database system?
> > >
> > >If you_re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no option
>
> for
>
> > >everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > >application.
> > >
> > >In our special case, we have developed a very smart object-oriented
> > >database metamodel and API, which could be implemented on top of
> > >different back-ends. We_ve done already for JBoss and Ozone is
>
> another
>
> > >option for us. As our model-driven architecture approach is
extremely
> > >powerful and complemented with a best-of-class IDE it could give
>
> Ozone a
>
> > >boost in widespread application.
> > >
> > >We_re strongly contributed to Open Source and we_re planning to
give
>
> our
>
> > >work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it_s
>
> absolutely
>
> > >free to use in the Open Source Environment. Additionally we will
>
> offer a
>
> > >proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the industrie. Can
we
>
> do
>
> > >this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer the product under the
> > >LGPL?
> > >
> > >Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
>
> Ozone
>
> > >with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out the
maximum
> > >amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level of
>
> abstraction
>
> > >ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >Christian Merenda
> > >
> > >----------------------------
> > >Christian Merenda
> > >Franz-Joseph-Str. 7
> > >80801 München
> > >
> > >Tel.: 0 89/82 90 97-17
> > >Fax: 0 89/82 90 97-18
> > >E-Mail:  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >Web:  <http://www.merenda.de> www.merenda.de
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Gerd Mueller                                    [email protected]
> > >SMB GmbH                                  http://www.smb-tec.com
> > >
> > >
> > >!DSPAM:42ad353e230183574914120!
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Dear sir / madam,
> > >
> > > on your website www.ozone-db.org <http://www.ozone-db.org/> you
have
> > > to licenses „Ozone Library License” and „Ozone Core License“. The
> > > first is essentially based on the LGPL, the second one on the GPL.
> > >
> > > So I do not understand which license is the right one or better to
> > > say: Which license corresponds to which part of the database
system?
> > >
> > > If you’re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no
option
> > > for everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > > application.
> > >
> > > In our special case, we have developed a very smart
object-oriented
> > > database metamodel and API, which could be implemented on top of
> > > different back-ends. We´ve done already for JBoss and Ozone is
>
> another
>
> > > option for us. As our model-driven architecture approach is
>
> extremely
>
> > > powerful and complemented with a best-of-class IDE it could give
>
> Ozone
>
> > > a boost in widespread application.
> > >
> > > We´re strongly contributed to Open Source and we´re planning to
give
> > > our work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it´s
> > > absolutely free to use in the Open Source Environment.
Additionally
>
> we
>
> > > will offer a proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the
> > > industrie. Can we do this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer
>
> the
>
> > > product under the LGPL?
> > >
> > > Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
> > > Ozone with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out
the
> > > maximum amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level
of
> > > abstraction ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Christian Merenda
> > >
> > > ----------------------------
> > >
> > > Christian Merenda
> > >
> > > Franz-Joseph-Str. 7
> > >
> > > 80801 München
> > >
> > > Tel.: 0 89/82 90 97-17
> > >
> > > Fax: 0 89/82 90 97-18
> > >
> > > E-Mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > >
> > > Web: www.merenda.de <http://www.merenda.de>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
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> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ozone-users
>
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