Re: AW: AW: Fw: GPL / LGPL

Hi Christian,

Wednesday 22 June 2005 18.27 skrev Christian Merenda:
> Hello Per and all the others out there,
>
> > We are 9 committers of which three are currently active
> > on a regular basis (myself, Leo and Wieslaw).
> > In addition there are patches sent in from other developers.
>
> How many time do you - nine/three committers - spend in a week for the
> Ozone database project at an average? How frequently do these patches
> arrive out of the community? They send them via e-mail, am I right?

I have no idea how long time spend on Ozone. I usually spend a couple of hours 
per weeks but them sometimes when i can find some time and know what do to it 
might be 40-60 hours per week. Falko did basically nothing but coded on Ozone 
back in the days for a whole year...

Patches are not wery common to be honest. Maybe one per month or less.

>
> What about your transaction engine? What kind of isolation level do you
> support (read uncommitted, read committed, repeatable read,
> serializable)?
>
> What about client-server interaction? Do the persistent objects reside
> on the server side or do you have some kind of client-side replicas?

All Ozone objects reside on the server side, no client-side replica. In this 
regard Ozone is just like a J2EE type application server (though simpler and 
much cleaner to use IMHO).

Best regards,
Per

>
> Best regards,
> Christian
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Per
> Nyfelt
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2005 11:31
> An: [email protected]
> Cc: Christian Merenda
> Betreff: Re: AW: [Ozone-users] Fw: GPL / LGPL
>
> Wednesday 15 June 2005 10.42 skrev Christian Merenda:
> > Thanks for your answers, Per and Kai! Now, the Ozone licensing is
> > absolutely clear! Under these circumstances Ozone is definitely an
> > option for us - we will think about it. :)
>
> Great!
>
> > Regarding a potentially integration effort, I've got two questions:
> >
> > 1. How many developers are involved in the Ozone project? Probably
>
> there
>
> > are only a few core developers...? Is that right? How many? Who? Have
> > other people contributed little code to the Ozone database
>
> additionally?
>
> > How many are involved alltogether?
>
> We are 9 committers of which three are currently active on a regular
> basis
> (myself, Leo and Wieslaw). In addition there are patches sent in from
> other
> developers. Once such a developers shows signs of commitment over time
> we
> uncourage him/her to become committer with direct access to the CVS
> repository.
>
> > 2. How does your mapping between objects and disk space work? I know,
> > that you use some kind of serialization mechanism.
>
> Yes, we use the built-in Serialization mechanism as the base for Object
> persistance in Ozone.
>
> > Nevertheless a
> > database system should know about pages ... As Ozone has no query
> > facility do you optimize the object storage task in a way that nearby
> > objects are stored on the same page so that navigation in an object
> > graph is optmized?
>
> Yes, related objects are stored in clusters. The current default
> back-end
> storage engine (WizardStore) has been the storage of choice for the last
> 5
> years (ClassicStore, the original storage engine is currently broken).
> There
> is also a variation of WizardStore called MagicStore with some
> performance
> improvements compared to WizardStore. Leo is working on a new back-end
> (GammaStore) which will further improve scalability and performance. We
> hope
> to have GammaStore ready to ship with 1.3. See ozone-dev mailing list
> archive
> for more details on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Per
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Per
> > Nyfelt
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Juni 2005 12:26
> > An: [email protected]
> > Cc: Kai Schutte; [email protected]
> > Betreff: Re: [Ozone-users] Fw: GPL / LGPL
> >
> > These are good points. I think that it should be OK for anyone,
> > commercial or
> > not to create Ozone based applications without forcing them to comply
>
> to
>
> > any
> > type of licensing restrictions. This is how i understand LGPL and this
> > is why
> > the public api (the one that the client i.e. the Ozone based app is
> > using) is
> > LGPL. However if modifications to the actual Ozone code is made these
> > modifications should be given back to the community. Also if someone
> > takes
> > the Ozone codebase and decides to fork this fork should be open
>
> source.
>
> > This
> > is why the Ozone core is GPL. This means in short
> >
> > 1. It is OK to ship commercial apps based on Ozone without having to
> > open
> > source the app. In fact I would encourage more commercial Ozone Based
> > apps!
> >
> > 2. If changes to Ozone is needed for the commercial application those
> > changes
> > need to be either GPL or LGPL depending on if the change is in the
> > public API
> > or in the core. The best way for the commercial vendor to make sure
> > improvements gets incorporated into the mainstream code is to get
> > involved in
> > the development of Ozone. We are in the process of figuring out a way
>
> to
>
> > receive donations (through the SourceForge donation system). This
>
> would
>
> > be
> > another way to give back to the developers of Ozone and let them
>
> benefit
>
> > from
> > some of the profit generated by a successfull commercial, Ozone-based
> > app.
> >
> > Coming back to the questions posed by Christian Merenda:
> > >Which license corresponds to which part of the database system?
> >
> > As explained above. Clients interact with LGPL code. The public (LGPL)
> > api
> > interacts with the Core, which is GPL.
> >
> > > >If you_re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no option
> >
> > for
> >
> > > >everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > > >application.
> >
> > Sure it would. As long as you do not modify the Ozone code and only
> > interact
> > with the public api you're perfectly fine.
> >
> > > > We´re strongly contributed to Open Source and we´re planning to
>
> give
>
> > > > our work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it´s
> > > > absolutely free to use in the Open Source Environment.
>
> Additionally
>
> > we
> >
> > > > will offer a proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the
> > > > industrie. Can we do this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > product under the LGPL?
> >
> > Yes you're code talks to the Ozone API which is LGPL. Thus linking to
>
> an
>
> > Ozone
> > back end poses no restrictions on how you license your code (be it
>
> GPL,
>
> > APL,
> > commercial or whatever)
> >
> > > > Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
> > > > Ozone with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out
>
> the
>
> > > > maximum amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level
>
> of
>
> > > > abstraction ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
> >
> > Sounds interesting. Please elaborate!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Per
> >
> > Monday 13 June 2005 12.19 skrev Kai Schutte:
> > > I recently asked MySQL directly about a similar question. The MySQL
> > > server itself is GPL, and the server also can be compiled as a
>
> library
>
> > > that can be directly linked with other code. The 'connectors', ie
>
> the
>
> > > drivers which manage a connection to MySQL are also GPL, which means
> > > that any application that you write that either links with the
>
> library
>
> > > version of the server or any of the drivers they provide must also
>
> be
>
> > > GPL, *unless* you purchase their commercial license. This also means
> > > that if you write your own connector which handles a network
> >
> > connection
> >
> > > to the MySQL server, you do not need your code to be GPL nor
>
> purchase
>
> > a
> >
> > > commercial license, as your code doesn't link with anything GPL.
> > >
> > > The hitch with GPL is that anything that links to it must also be
>
> GPL.
>
> > > It is a violation of the license to link and LGPL code with GPL
>
> code.
>
> > > (Of course, if you're the author, you're allowed to do that, because
> > > you're the only person who can sue yourself). Linking Bob's
> >
> > proprietary
> >
> > > code with Alice's LGPL code which links with Alice's GPL code is a
> >
> > clear
> >
> > > violation. The only way you can use a GPL database server with
> > > proprietary code is through a network connection.
> > >
> > > Hence, if the product that Christian Meranda is working on would
> >
> > require
> >
> > > linking to GPL code (within the same application space) and this
>
> code
>
> > is
> >
> > > to be redistributed under the GPL, all is good. But, if they want to
> > > resell a commercial license for their clients to use their product
> >
> > which
> >
> > > includes Ozone GPL code, that's obviously a violation, because
> >
> > Christian
> >
> > > Merenda is distributing his work under a different license which
>
> links
>
> > > to GPL code and the GPL doesn't allow that. The only solution here
>
> is
>
> > if
> >
> > > Ozone itself would be distributed under a different license.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, if Christian Merenda wants to sell his work which
> >
> > relies
> >
> > > on Ozone being in the same application space, aren't Ozone
>
> developpers
>
> > > entitled to some share of the funds? (ie, make a commercial license
> > > scheme for Ozone).
> > >
> > > -kai
> > >
> > > (btw, I'm not an Ozone dev, I'm just thinking out loud :) )
> > >
> > > Gerd Mueller wrote:
> > > >Begin forwarded message:
> > > >
> > > >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:25:14 +0200
> > > >From: "Christian Merenda" <[email protected]>
> > > >To: <[email protected]>
> > > >Subject: GPL / LGPL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Dear sir / madam,
> > > >
> > > >on your website  <http://www.ozone-db.org/> www.ozone-db.org you
>
> have
>
> > to
> >
> > > >licenses _Ozone Library License_ and _Ozone Core License_. The
>
> first
>
> > is
> >
> > > >essentially based on the LGPL, the second one on the GPL.
> > > >
> > > >So I do not understand which license is the right one or better to
> >
> > say:
> > > >Which license corresponds to which part of the database system?
> > > >
> > > >If you_re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no option
> >
> > for
> >
> > > >everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > > >application.
> > > >
> > > >In our special case, we have developed a very smart object-oriented
> > > >database metamodel and API, which could be implemented on top of
> > > >different back-ends. We_ve done already for JBoss and Ozone is
> >
> > another
> >
> > > >option for us. As our model-driven architecture approach is
>
> extremely
>
> > > >powerful and complemented with a best-of-class IDE it could give
> >
> > Ozone a
> >
> > > >boost in widespread application.
> > > >
> > > >We_re strongly contributed to Open Source and we_re planning to
>
> give
>
> > our
> >
> > > >work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it_s
> >
> > absolutely
> >
> > > >free to use in the Open Source Environment. Additionally we will
> >
> > offer a
> >
> > > >proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the industrie. Can
>
> we
>
> > do
> >
> > > >this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer the product under the
> > > >LGPL?
> > > >
> > > >Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
> >
> > Ozone
> >
> > > >with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out the
>
> maximum
>
> > > >amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level of
> >
> > abstraction
> >
> > > >ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
> > > >
> > > >Best regards,
> > > >Christian Merenda
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------
> > > >Christian Merenda
> > > >Franz-Joseph-Str. 7
> > > >80801 München
> > > >
> > > >Tel.: 0 89/82 90 97-17
> > > >Fax: 0 89/82 90 97-18
> > > >E-Mail:  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > > >Web:  <http://www.merenda.de> www.merenda.de
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >Gerd Mueller                                    [email protected]
> > > >SMB GmbH                                  http://www.smb-tec.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >!DSPAM:42ad353e230183574914120!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > Dear sir / madam,
> > > >
> > > > on your website www.ozone-db.org <http://www.ozone-db.org/> you
>
> have
>
> > > > to licenses „Ozone Library License” and „Ozone Core License“. The
> > > > first is essentially based on the LGPL, the second one on the GPL.
> > > >
> > > > So I do not understand which license is the right one or better to
> > > > say: Which license corresponds to which part of the database
>
> system?
>
> > > > If you’re restraining the core to the GPL, ozone would be no
>
> option
>
> > > > for everybody who plans to distribute a commercial and proprietary
> > > > application.
> > > >
> > > > In our special case, we have developed a very smart
>
> object-oriented
>
> > > > database metamodel and API, which could be implemented on top of
> > > > different back-ends. We´ve done already for JBoss and Ozone is
> >
> > another
> >
> > > > option for us. As our model-driven architecture approach is
> >
> > extremely
> >
> > > > powerful and complemented with a best-of-class IDE it could give
> >
> > Ozone
> >
> > > > a boost in widespread application.
> > > >
> > > > We´re strongly contributed to Open Source and we´re planning to
>
> give
>
> > > > our work back to the Open Source Community under the GPL. So it´s
> > > > absolutely free to use in the Open Source Environment.
>
> Additionally
>
> > we
> >
> > > > will offer a proprietary, commercial license for the rest of the
> > > > industrie. Can we do this with Ozone in the back-end? Do you offer
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > product under the LGPL?
> > > >
> > > > Additionally it could be interesting for you to tightly integrate
> > > > Ozone with our product. If we work together, we can squeeze out
>
> the
>
> > > > maximum amount of performance of an ODBMS with the highest level
>
> of
>
> > > > abstraction ever seen on the market. What do you think about this?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Christian Merenda
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Christian Merenda
> > > >
> > > > Franz-Joseph-Str. 7
> > > >
> > > > 80801 München
> > > >
> > > > Tel.: 0 89/82 90 97-17
> > > >
> > > > Fax: 0 89/82 90 97-18
> > > >
> > > > E-Mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > > >
> > > > Web: www.merenda.de <http://www.merenda.de>
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
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>
> you
>
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> > guy.
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ozone-users mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ozone-users
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > [email protected]
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> >
> >
> >
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