Re: robowiki are down now

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:26 PM, fnl <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> If it is possible to keep the RoboWiki up and running with the help of other
> user stepping up with admin responsibilities as you propose, this would of
> course be the best option. :-)
> Would that be sufficient for keeping the RoboWiki up and running?

It won't hurt. :-) I guess we can wait and see if/when there is
another big outage before doing anything drastic. But I do think a new
admin that's both seasoned (trustworthy / knowledgeable) and active
(available) would be helpful. It's pretty much me and Skilgannon and
we both have plenty of other stuff going on. (Heck, I even have a
competing game.)

As for bots, Rednaxela has a pretty sweet automated bot archiving
system which saves them here:
http://robocode-archive.strangeautomata.com/robots/

>
> - Flemming
>
> Den tirsdag den 21. juli 2015 kl. 22.22.40 UTC+2 skrev Patrick Cupka:
>>
>> > Anyway, it seems that hosting a stable mediawiki instance is a bit too
>> > much
>> > of a bother at current. Seems like a great idea to see if it can be
>> > exported
>> > to SF. If that doesn't work, then just exporting a static HTML site is
>> > an
>> > alternative:
>> >
>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Publishing_from_MediaWiki#Built-in_methods_of_exporting_data_via_the_command-line
>>
>> Ditching the current MediaWiki altogether seems a bit drastic. How
>> many instances of down-time have there been in the last couple years?
>> There was a big outage over the holidays in 2013 and then this one in
>> May. I doubt migrating the pages to a free host would work to
>> anybody's satisfaction. We couldn't migrate users, we have custom
>> MediaWiki plugins, even one that communicates with the LiteRumble
>> server. The RoboWiki is pretty huge and gets quite a bit of traffic.
>> The wiki would be a shadow of its former, uh, self. And who knows if
>> the reliability would improve, anyway.
>>
>> Our current setup is pretty good. I use VPSLink for my BerryBots, too.
>> We just don't have any admins that still have the passion for
>> Robocode. When there is down-time, there is still the Wayback Machine
>> (at archive.org). If we can also offer a dump of the RoboWiki pages as
>> a big download, I'd be pretty satisfied with that setup.
>>
>> When my passion started to fade, I made sure to give admin (MediaWiki
>> and SSH) access to some trustworthy folks that were still active:
>> Skilgannon, Rednaxela, and Darkcanuck. But I guess their passion has
>> faded too. (That's the same access that I have. David has that + the
>> admin console at VPSLink, for "hard" reboots.) Maybe someone like
>> Chase would be willing to step up with server admin responsibilities?
>> I certainly trust him and he knows his way around the wiki.
>>
>> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Peter Strm <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Very interesting mail thread! I know I used to be one of those
>> > advocating
>> > Robocode game play should stay as clean and simple as it was, but I do
>> > not
>> > remember ever thinking it through on a level even close to Patrick's.
>> >
>> > I'm also sure there are still major innovations to be made, even though
>> > the
>> > interest for the platform might fade before that happens. I can relate
>> > to
>> > how discouraging it could be to go about trying to compete with DrussGT
>> > and
>> > Diamond and realise you will have to perfect every existing trick in the
>> > book...
>> >
>> > Anyway, it seems that hosting a stable mediawiki instance is a bit too
>> > much
>> > of a bother at current. Seems like a great idea to see if it can be
>> > exported
>> > to SF. If that doesn't work, then just exporting a static HTML site is
>> > an
>> > alternative:
>> >
>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Publishing_from_MediaWiki#Built-in_methods_of_exporting_data_via_the_command-line
>> >
>> > Regardless, when the export is done, let me know the hostname/IP of
>> > where it
>> > is published so that I can repoint the DNS things.
>> >
>> > /PEZ
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 11:47 AM, fnl <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Patrick,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :-)
>> >>
>> >> It would be great if we could move the RoboWiki to another Wiki or
>> >> similar
>> >> (static pages?), e.g. using the Export feature of the MediaWiki
>> >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Export).
>> >> Perhaps it could be moved to the Wiki for the Robocode page on
>> >> SourceForge? It should be enabled first. Currently the developer pages
>> >> on
>> >> SourceForge are down (is being restored after a disk breakdown). So I
>> >> am not
>> >> able to see, if it is possible to import the MediaWiki export (yet).
>> >>
>> >> At least I want to let people access all the vital knowledge to make
>> >> good
>> >> Robocode robots. And people get upset when the RoboWiki is down. But I
>> >> fully
>> >> understand that you (PEZ) and David Alves don't what to be involved
>> >> with the
>> >> RoboWiki anymore. The best thing would be to put it somewhere where
>> >> more
>> >> people is able to maintain it - and hopefully without to pay for
>> >> hosting
>> >> etc.
>> >>
>> >> When the developer pages of SourceForge (SF) are up and running again,
>> >> I
>> >> will see if I can import the RoboWiki pages to the SF Wiki somehow.
>> >> I will also try to make an export of the RoboWiki pages, when I get
>> >> time
>> >> for it (probably tonight). I expect that it will not be possible to
>> >> export
>> >> the RoboWiki users. So this will be an issue.
>> >>
>> >> Regarding the development of Robocode. I am only maintaining the
>> >> current
>> >> Robocode with bug fixes etc. If somebody want to add new features, they
>> >> should go ahead and implement these. I will help with the integration
>> >> etc.
>> >> if the features are not too complex to handle. But I won't be the one
>> >> doing
>> >> all the work (anymore).
>> >> Robocode is Open Source, so if somebody else want to take over the
>> >> development, they are free to do so. I just hope he/she/they will have
>> >> skills enough to get it in a better shape. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> - - - -
>> >> I am still working on a "Robocode 2", which is protocol based (on top
>> >> of
>> >> WebSockets) making it possible to be language independent and also work
>> >> for
>> >> web - e.g. using JavaScript. The development progress is slow as I
>> >> don't
>> >> have so much spare time as I had 10 years ago (when taking over the
>> >> development/maintenance of Robocode).
>> >> I am not sure if I will ever finish this new version, but at least the
>> >> development is still ongoing. Currently it is not open source as I want
>> >> to
>> >> make a clean core and have the freedom to change anything at anytime
>> >> without
>> >> being forced to coordinate with other developers. I see this new
>> >> version as
>> >> "my new baby", so it must be good enough before I let other people in.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> - Flemming
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Den lørdag den 18. juli 2015 kl. 20.04.23 UTC+2 skrev Patrick Cupka:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey guys - late to the dialogue, but a few things to mention. (Beware:
>> >>> wall of text incoming.)
>> >>>
>> >>> The wiki mostly runs itself and is hosted at VPSLink, which is pretty
>> >>> reliable. The problem during downtime is that neither myself, who
>> >>> "owns" the
>> >>> wiki (i.e., from PEZ), nor David Alves, who actually pays for hosting,
>> >>> actually care so much about Robocode anymore. When your heart's not in
>> >>> it,
>> >>> there are plenty of other things that take precedence.
>> >>>
>> >>> I believe MediaWiki has a facility to export all the pages to an XML
>> >>> format. We could make the full archive available somewhere (eg,
>> >>> someone's
>> >>> Dropbox) every so often, if it's something people are interested in.
>> >>> Then
>> >>> you can do whatever you want with it. It strikes me as the kind of
>> >>> thing
>> >>> people say they want, then nobody would actually download it. :-) But
>> >>> we
>> >>> could try.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's certainly nobody acting as a gatekeeper here to keep it single
>> >>> sourced. There are no ads. PEZ and I gave a dump of the old wiki to
>> >>> someone
>> >>> upon request a while back. The RoboWiki is all about sharing Robocode
>> >>> knowledge.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are plenty of other programming games, but nothing in the same
>> >>> league as Robocode as far as number of bots or active competitions.
>> >>> Then
>> >>> again, people also complain that there is nothing new to be innovated
>> >>> in
>> >>> Robocode, so it's a double-edged sword. I like to joke that it's the
>> >>> "Google
>> >>> Reader of programming games" – it got a huge corporate push from IBM,
>> >>> it
>> >>> smothers the rest of the market (tons of bots, history, Java, name
>> >>> recognition), and might need to die off before all these other games
>> >>> can
>> >>> blossom - hopefully with some kind of common community, as well as
>> >>> communities of their own.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have my own offering: BerryBots (http://berrybots.com). You can read
>> >>> a
>> >>> comparison to Robocode gameplay here:
>> >>> http://berrybots.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17 ... Or even try it in a
>> >>> browser: http://playberrybots.com. Primarily, it features programmable
>> >>> stages, walls on the playing field, and a secondary weapon
>> >>> (grenade-like).
>> >>> It also has a pretty sweet automation API with built-in
>> >>> multithreading,
>> >>> (optional) graphical form inputs, and the ability to save HTML5
>> >>> replays of
>> >>> matches. There are only a few bots, but I'd be hella impressed if you
>> >>> can
>> >>> beat Sanic (from Frohman).
>> >>>
>> >>> The other games that have caught my eye are FightCodeGame.com, a fully
>> >>> web based Robocode-inspired game; and NodeWar.com, which might be the
>> >>> only
>> >>> truly inspiring / innovative gameplay I've seen. I'd also check out
>> >>> http://programminggames.org, which seems to be gaining steam.
>> >>>
>> >>> I sympathize with the desire to join a large, active community. But
>> >>> the
>> >>> RoboWiki might make the Robocode community seem a lot more active than
>> >>> it
>> >>> is. Good luck catching me and Skilgannon while we never update our
>> >>> bots. ;)
>> >>> At some point, we have to make something new. I suspect even "Robocode
>> >>> 2"
>> >>> will have the same problems as the rest of the new entrants into the
>> >>> genre.
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope that's enlightening! Best of luck,
>> >>>
>> >>> -- Patrick
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from mobile
>> >>>
>> >>> On May 4, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Jesse Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll raise my hand.  I just don't know what would need to be done
>> >>> though
>> >>> since I've never done this before.  Would a service such as
>> >>> http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page suffice?  Can anyone provide
>> >>> some
>> >>> other guidance on a good way to host that is minimal cost?  Also, how
>> >>> would
>> >>> one obtain the current wiki content?
>> >>>
>> >>> Question.  Is robocode still viable or are there other better, widely
>> >>> used, supported platforms along the same vein?  Please advise.  I'm
>> >>> looking
>> >>> to work with a platform like robocode to ultimately compete against
>> >>> others..
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 5:57 PM, ramn.se ‘¸ <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How do we get hold of the database?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Pavel Šavara <[email protected]>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi everybody,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> it would be perhaps good idea if all people who think robowiki is
>> >>>>> important would try to help.
>> >>>>> Somebody may try to run mirror, or perhaps somebody would organize
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> run it on more stable hosting ?
>> >>>>> Perhaps people would donate some cash needed to pay for the hosting
>> >>>>> ?
>> >>>>> Just suggestions, in the end it's community project, right ?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Anybody at all ? Raise your hands !
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Pavel
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 11:48 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Yeah, I hope they fix it soon... It's really important for many
>> >>>>>> people!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
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>>
>> --
>> Patrick Cupka, [email protected]
>> --



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