Re: Switching frameworks (was: what about adding spring ?)

My 2 cents.
As Ronny says some time ago i starts migration from Turbine 3a to
Turbine 2.4. And i failed.
My conclusion:
 * Scarab has big mess in codebase.
 * Too many different experimental technologies and patterns lies in
basis (YAAFI, singleton services)
 * No separation between different frameworks (Torque is like part of Turbine)
 * Business logic is too spreaded across different components

I can't complete migration because Turbine 2.4 persistence layer is
completly incompatible with fulcrum persistence services. When i
understand this i try to build new persistence layer based on JPA, but
can't agregate complete set of business logic. And then i change my
work and relocated to Moscow. And now i haven't time to spent on
Scarab.

No mater which framework you choose. Spring, Tapestry or something
else - no matter. It will like complete rewrite. Because you need to
change all components: persistence, controller, internal services
(i18n, scheduler, etc). Now Scarab in situation like Bugzilla - hard
to move forward, but change direction is much harder.

In modern situation where non-hosted solution is cheap and also
present not so expensive enterprise solutions, Scarab looks
unfinished.
Good idea is to take basic Scarab ideas and rewrite engine without
complexity and then wrap it with some modern but established
framework. But it very expensive for community.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 16:16, Ronny Voelker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nice summary with a sad conclusion.
>
> My hope is, that there is still some drive to add new functionality.
> If we avoid the temptation to add another hack on top of the existing hacks (even if it seems easier), when changing the functionality, then the average quality of the code-base will grow over time.
> We are forced to refactor (just to retain our sanity).
>
> Ronny
>
> Ps. I always wondered, if this (the poor state of the code base) was the real reason for collab.net to abandon Scarab.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hussayn [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Switching frameworks (was: what about adding spring ?)
>
> ok, let me try to summarize:
>
> - Only after a significant framework-independent refactoring has taken
>  place, it makes sense to move the code base to a framework.
>
> - It is best to fully refactor Scarab and introduce a clean API. But
>  this is a long term project needing many developer resources.
>
> - The current Scarab code base is a mess and putting new functionality
>  on top of this mess will become a tedious task and does not add to
> clearity.
>
> - refactoring the GUI in itself is a tedious taks, because it is fully
>  intertwinned with the backend. Hence refactorings of frontend and
>  backend are also intertwinned. (i learned this from my parallel thread
>  about refactoring the velocity templates)
>
> ok. That sounds like we are not in a good position here...
>
> Scarab development is driven by needs of the individual contributors.
> So it looks like we are well beyond the point, where someone of us will
> take the time and do the huge work of refactoring and cleaning up Scarab
> just for fun.
>
> So what can we do ?
>
> I myself will now get back to my Scarab wishlist, add the functionality as i
> need it and propose my doings as additions to the trunk. I will take care to
> keep add on complexity low and i also will try to remove existing complexity
> by refactoiring where it is appropriate and helps my current development.
>
> I also will take a closer look to "Sesat Commons IoC", which maybe can
> help me/us as an additional guideline. And i will let any framework out of
> my mind for the moment.
>
> Waving to Mick: What about the licensing ? If your commons-ioc is added to
> Scarab,
> we would need it to have a compatible license model, right ? Can you make
> this
> possible ?
>
> regards, Hussayn
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/what-about-adding-spring---tp21418409p21435028.html
> Sent from the Scarab - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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