Re: Maven port to current version 3

Hi Hussayn,

we are sorry if you feel pushed by the maven-build-move. As you know we=20
appreciate your efforts for scarab, as you hopefully appreciate ours.
We checked the points you mentioned in your first comment on this thread=20
(see Johannes answers) and - as far as we can say - there are no issues=20
concerning these. If there are, we will care about.
Concerning approval, we have asked publicly on the dev mailing list,=20
addressed your concerns, and as there were no more=20
notes/messages/questions we went ahead as announced. Honestly, we do not=20
know what we should have done else. And again, there is and was no=20
intention to push anyone. We think this should be clearly visible from=20
the thread.
To the build:
1) Runtime dependency to ant is not touched, we did not intend to remove=20
ant completely, but replace it for the build. You can see the ant=20
library is still part of the project, so runtime is not affected and=20
unchanged. Btw, the code using ant lib dependencies is from 2004 for=20
setup and migration and looks *quite* out of date if not unused.
2) We do not removed any build functionality, at least not without=20
according and appropriate replacement in maven. If there are any=20
questions concerning the build (btw, the build documentation has been=20
updated accordingly), please ask your questions and me or Johannes will=20
be glad to clarify what's needed and/or enhance the documentation.=20
Anyone else is invited and encouraged to ask his questions too.
4) As announced, we have *removed* the ant build (but again: with full=20
maven replacement), mainly because this would have meant to manage two=20
build configurations for the project. Yes, this means dropping some=20
others people work (better: files), but be assured this is not disregard=20
of anybodys work. The other way round: transforming the work you and=20
others have done on the ant build to use a more powerful alternative is=20
the way we like it to be seen.
5) build properties haven't been touched at all, so no need for touching=20
the documentation
6) You mentioned "Local build directories / build without internet=20
access" was requested some time in the past. Yes, this is dropped with=20
the new build. And to be honest we don't think this to be any kind of=20
issue *today*: If you have maven set up and never done a build, the=20
initial build syncs your local maven repository once and (only) here you=20
would need internet access (btw: as it has been for the maven1 build=20
plugins too). From then you do not need to be online for building as=20
everything is available in your local maven repo. We do not think it=20
makes sense to check in the local maven repository. If you want to have=20
the libraries not only on the local developer machine, the (common) way=20
would be to use a maven proxy.


regards,
Frank

Am 30.04.2012 13:49, schrieb Hussayn Dabbous:
> Hi, frank;
>
> While your general description about how a decision should be done is
> the way to go, i feel a bit pushed by your move. I have already expressed
> some doubts in the thread. I pointed out that ant is used not only for
> building but also during runtime and i have not checked if you got that
> addressed
> with your changes.
>
> So now i have to ask the question how you can remove working functionalit=
y
> without getting approval first. I thought we had started the process of
> discussion, but you just went ahead without waiting for the decisions.
> It would have been fair at least to ask back if all project owners
> approve the change.
> Just remember, that i am one of them and it was me who has been maintaini=
ng
> the trunk version almost alone for the last 2 years...
>
> Although i appreciate your intentions, i still believe that was no good
> move.
> Especially i rely on ant to work and i have maintained the ant build all
> the time
> since about 6 years i believe. So i strongly believe that you just can
> not drop
> this work without full project owner approval.
>
> I have not yet checked if "skipping support for ant" is equal to "make
> it impossible
> to build with ant" or just "maintenance has been dropped". but even that =
is
> very questionable as i am actually doing maintenance for the ant build.
>
> So have you dropped my work then ?
> That would be unfair to the least without my approval,
> even if you and us where the only users of Scarab.
>
> However, i do not want to block any improvements on Scarab,
> i actually appreciate that you are back on the track, and that
> gives me some "hope for the future of Scarab"!
>
> But i think that you have to take care of a few constraints. Here
> is what should be done IMHO:
>
> 1.) Switch from Maven1 to maven3 is ok for me as long
>         as the maintenance functions for builders are kept
>         intact:
>         - update repository
>         - update the default build properties files
>         - update the properties documentation.
>
> 2.) Keep ant support intact until all builders/developers have
>         approved that they are willing to switch (better  "have switched"=
)
>         from ant to maven3
>
> 3.) Ensure that complete removal of ant also keeps deploying and
>        starting Scarab intact. I know there is a dependencency to ant in
> the code
>        during the startup sequence. I have added that by myself
>        about 4 years ago.
>
> 4.) Strongly support local build directories! there are users who
>        explicitly have addressed this topic in the past. Scarab must be
>        buildable without internet access and out of the distribution pack=
age.
>        And that's the main reason why we have the build repository
>        distributed along with Scarab.
>
> Can you accept this roadmap ? then all is well ...
>
> regards,
> Hussayn
>
>
> On 30.04.2012 11:44, memoComp Open Source Team wrote:
>> Hi Hussayn,
>>
>> concerning your question for the "decision process":
>> The step was proposed and explained in the first post of this thread
>> including a request for comments/suggestions.
>> The second post pointed out the changes made on the branch and announced
>> the merge to the trunk - including an according ticket SCB3096 on the
>> selfhost.
>> As there were no objections, Johannes went on and merged as announced.
>> We think this is the way to go - remarks/comments/hints?
>>
>> The two main goals we want to achieve by switching to maven were:
>> * using a *single* build tool to easy the build process
>> * provide the basis for being able to update the used libraries -
>> relying on publicly available and released versions.
>> The second point is still not done, but as you might see on the Turbine4
>> branch, we hope the get this resolved as soon as Turbine 4 will released=
.
>> Additionally we hope to improve the options for future
>> improvements/changes concerning the used libraries/frameworks, but this
>> may be a roadmap/what's next topic we should (and like to) discuss separ=
atly
>>
>> regards,
>> Frank
>>
>> Am 27.04.2012 00:34, schrieb Hussayn Dabbous:
>>> Who has decided that ant is no longer supported to build Scarab ?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Hussayn
>>>
>>> Am 26.04.2012 11:34, schrieb Johannes H=C3=B6chst=C3=A4dter:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> SCB3096: Today I merged our current branch for Maven 3 port back to tr=
unk.
>>>>
>>>> You now will need:
>>>> * scarab-maven-plugin installed (extensions directory)
>>>> * all patched and licensed libraries installed in your local repo, see
>>>> www/repository/README.txt
>>>> * Maven 3
>>>>
>>>> Ant is not longer supported for building Scarab.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> Johannes
>>>>
>>>> Am 17.04.2012 16:49, schrieb Johannes H=C3=B6chst=C3=A4dter:
>>>>> Am 17.04.2012 16:17, schrieb Hussayn Dabbous:
>>>>>> Hi, Johannes;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you going to completely remove the ant build ?
>>>>>> I remember a discussion about kicking ant in favor
>>>>>> of maven-2 some time ago. At that time there was
>>>>>> strong evidence to keep ant although i do not rember
>>>>>> the exact reasoning.
>>>>> Yes, removing Ant is the plan for Scarab's build. We want to migrate =
the
>>>>> whole build to Maven 3, to avoid a two-tier build system. Keeping Ant
>>>>> for this has no reason for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you aware of the fact that ant is also used during
>>>>>> runtime
>>>>> Can you please point out where Ant is used exactly during runtime, an=
d
>>>>> how this is related to the build? Are you sure that this is still in
>>>>> use? For webinstall we have this standalone webapp as alternative as =
you
>>>>> can see here: http://itlabs.memocomp.de/ScarabWebBuilder.
>>>>>> and the ant jars are also deployed to WEB-INF/lib ?
>>>>> The default war build, by "package", from Maven is taken, which deplo=
ys
>>>>> all jars correctly.
>>>>>> Are you going to remove this dependency also ?
>>>>>> And how would the normal build change with Maven-3 ?
>>>>> As you might know, Maven and Ant behave nearly compatible, so no real
>>>>> "change" is expected, e.g. for some special Ant tasks of Scarab we us=
e
>>>>> Mojos for Maven now, but there are some differences in our plan. The
>>>>> major one might be:  All jars will be taken from official Maven
>>>>> repositories during build, and no local repository is kept, as this i=
s
>>>>> not the way to go for Maven I think. You are free to set up a proxy f=
or
>>>>> this, Nexus or else, or use your own local repository, as this should=
 be
>>>>> more comfortable.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Johannes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Am 17.04.2012 15:57, schrieb Johannes H=C3=B6chst=C3=A4dter:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the branch work for the announced maven port seems to be done. For =
this
>>>>>>> reason we want to merge the resulting sources back to trunk at the =
end
>>>>>>> of next week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We opened an issue for this: SCB3096.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>> Johannes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 16.04.2012 15:22, schrieb Johannes H=C3=B6chst=C3=A4dter:
>>>>>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> back on trunk, we want to migrate Scarab's build to Maven, and to =
start
>>>>>>>> to get rid of the dependencies to the build tools Ant and Maven 1.=
1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Therefore we have the following suggestion:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * There will be a new dependant project scarab-maven-plugin which
>>>>>>>> contains a Maven plugin for some special Scarab build tasks e.g. t=
he
>>>>>>>> database. This subproject will reside in directory
>>>>>>>> "Scarab/extensions/scarab-maven-plugin" for now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We will start the Maven port soon, on a newly created branch. For =
us,
>>>>>>>> Maven 3 is a good choice and our currently working build environme=
nt for
>>>>>>>> Scarab.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are looking forward to your replies if there are any suggestion=
s...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>>> Johannes
>>>>>>>>
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