Re: store and resume
Johannes Bruegmann <[email protected]> Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:11:10 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.java.sisc.user |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Hello, thanks for your reply, Scott. "Scott G. Miller" <[email protected]> writes: > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Johannes Bruegmann <[email protected]>= wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> i am trying to get "store and resume" to work. I want to do some >> computation and when a certain point of computation is reached store >> the state of *everything* onto disk, in order to resume from thereon >> later in a new session/repl. >> > > > ..snip.. > > Given the resulting size of the stored environment, it looks like you're > serializing more than just the modifications you've made. My guess witho= ut > looking much further into it, is that there are unserializable values on = the > stack, such as ports or in your latter example Java proxy objects. > Unfortunately you need to store these differently. SISCWeb, afaik, puts > these in parameter objects, and reinitializes them on startup. Ok. The proxy objects came from connection-stuff and the error disappeared when seperating the base library code and loading it normally before deserializing the environment. So currently only the syntax problem remains for my case. > Additionally, there are known problems with syntax environments not being > completely contained within user-defined environments. In the simpler > example, its possible that serializing your *environment* winds up > serializing the global syntax environment and then some other stuff that = it > shouldn't. See if you can separate your base library code and load it > normally before deserializing your environment. I tried it and had some success with it - see above. But the syntactic stuff is still a problem: SISC (1.16.6) > (load "foo.scm") > (with-environment *environment* (color black)) #<record #<record #0=3D#<record #0# [:record-type (name field-tags)]> [:col= or (index name)]> [0 black]> > = Process scheme finished SISC (1.16.6) > (load "foo.scm") > (with-environment *environment* (color black)) java.lang.NullPointerException at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.append(Unknown Source) at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.displayOrWrite(Unknown Source) at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.display(Unknown Source) at sisc.modules.io.IO.displayOrWrite(Unknown Source) at sisc.modules.io.IO.doApply(Unknown Source) at sisc.nativefun.NativeProcedure.apply(Unknown Source) at sisc.exprs.AppEval.eval(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown Source) at sisc.exprs.AppExp.eval(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown Source) at sisc.exprs.EvalExp.eval(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.eval(Unknown Source) at sisc.data.SchemeThread.run(Unknown Source) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595) Uncaught error: ((message . <java.lang.NullPointerException>: null) (locati= on . eqv?) (java-exception . #<java java.lang.NullPointerException java.lan= g.NullPointerException>)) Please report this error to [email protected] > (with-environment *environment* (color? (vector-ref colors 0))) #t > (with-environment *environment* (frob-a baz)) 1 where foo.scm: (load "store-and-resume.scm") (require-library 'sisc/libs/srfi) (require-library 'sisc/misc/misc) (try-resume "bar.env" = (load "bar.scm") = (import bar)) and bar.scm: (module bar = (baz = make-frob frob? frob-a frob-b frob-c (color) color? colors color-name color-index) = (import srfi-1) (import srfi-9) (import finite-types) = (define baz #f) (define-record-type :frob = (make-frob a b c) frob? (a frob-a) (b frob-b) (c frob-c)) = (define-enumerated-type color :color color? colors color-name color-index (black white purple maroon)) = (set! baz (apply make-frob (fold-right (lambda (x unit) (cons x uni= t)) '() (list 1 2 3)))) ) Is there anything i can do further? If it's possible and would lead to success, i don't mind serializing the global syntax environment. The resulting file will become huge anyway - i guess a few hundred megs, so a few megs more or less doesn't matter. How could this be done? Regards, Johannes >> >> The toy example looks like this and it works: >> >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# cat store-and-resume.scm >> (import file-manipulation) >> (import serial-io) >> >> (define (serialize-to-file fname val) >> (if (not (file-exists? fname)) >> (call-with-serial-output-file fname (lambda (p) (serialize val >> p))) >> #f)) >> >> (define (deserialize-from-file fname) >> (if (file-exists? fname) >> (call-with-serial-input-file fname deserialize) >> #f)) >> >> (define-syntax with-environment >> (lambda (f) >> (syntax-case f () >> ((_ env exp0 exp1 ...) >> (syntax (begin >> (eval 'exp0 env) >> (eval 'exp1 env) >> ... >> )))))) >> >> (define *environment* >> (make-child-environment (interaction-environment))) >> >> (let ((fname "foo.env")) >> (putprop 'fname *environment* fname) >> (if (not (file-exists? fname)) >> (with-environment *environment* >> (define foo 12345) >> (serialize-to-file fname *environment*)) >> (set! *environment* (deserialize-from-file fname)) >> )) >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc >> SISC (1.16.6) >> > (load "store-and-resume.scm") >> > (with-environment *environment* foo) >> 12345 >> > ^D >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env >> -rw-r--r-- 1 bruegmann bruegmann 6535 3 Apr 13:50 foo.env >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc >> SISC (1.16.6) >> > (load "store-and-resume.scm") >> > (with-environment *environment* foo) >> 12345 >> > ^D >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env >> -rw-r--r-- 1 bruegmann bruegmann 6535 3 Apr 13:50 foo.env >> >> A little more complex example like the following throws a >> JavaNullPointerException: >> >> (require-library 'sisc/libs/srfi) >> (require-library 'sisc/misc/misc) >> >> (module bar >> (baz make-frob frob? frob-a frob-b frob-c (color) >> color? colors color-name color-index (color-set) >> color-set? make-color-set color color? colors color-index) >> >> (import srfi-1) >> (import srfi-9) >> (import finite-types) >> (import enum-sets) >> >> (define baz #f) >> (define-record-type :frob >> (make-frob a b c) >> frob? >> (a frob-a) >> (b frob-b) >> (c frob-c)) >> >> (define-enumerated-type color :color >> color? >> colors >> color-name >> color-index >> (black white purple maroon)) >> >> (define-enum-set-type color-set :color-set >> color-set? >> make-color-set >> color color? colors color-index) >> >> (set! baz (apply make-frob (fold-right (lambda (x unit) (cons x >> unit)) '() (list 1 2 3)))) >> ) >> >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc >> SISC (1.16.6) >> > (load "store-and-resume.scm") >> > (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (color red))) >> Error: invalid syntax (color red) >> --------------------------- >> Some stack trace entries may have been suppressed. To see all entri= es >> set the dynamic parameter suppressed-stack-trace-source-kinds to '(). >> > (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (color red))) >> Error: invalid syntax (color red) >> > (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (color black= ))) >> #t >> > ^D >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env >> -rw-r--r-- 1 bruegmann bruegmann 997712 3 Apr 15:48 foo.env >> bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc >> SISC (1.16.6) >> > (load "store-and-resume.scm") >> > (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (color black= ))) >> java.lang.NullPointerException >> at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.append(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.displayOrWrite(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.display(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.modules.io.IO.displayOrWrite(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.modules.io.IO.doApply(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.nativefun.NativeProcedure.apply(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.exprs.AppEval.eval(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.exprs.AppExp.eval(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.exprs.EvalExp.eval(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.eval(Unknown Source) >> at sisc.data.SchemeThread.run(Unknown Source) >> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595) >> Uncaught error: ((message . <java.lang.NullPointerException>: null) >> (location . eqv?) (java-exception . #<java java.lang.NullPointerException >> java.lang.NullPointerException>)) >> Please report this error to [email protected] >> >> >> While the real application i want to work with throwed this here: >> >> Error in load: evaluation error at >> file:/home/bruegmann/du/cvs-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-and-resume.= scm:29:1 >> --------------------------- >> console:1:1: <from call to load> >> --------------------------- >> Some stack trace entries may have been suppressed. To see all entri= es >> set the dynamic parameter suppressed-stack-trace-source-kinds to '(). >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Caused by Error in deserialize: error reading from port >> 'sisc.io.DeserializerStream@3aa42c31': java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: >> $Proxy1 >> --------------------------- >> >> file:/home/bruegmann/du/cvs-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-and-resume= .scm:13:7: >> <from call to @serial-io::call-with-serial-input-file> >> >> file:/home/bruegmann/du/cvs-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-and-resume= .scm:36:27: >> <from call to deserialize-from-file> >> >> What am i doing wrong? Is there a better way to do it? >> >> Regards, >> Johannes >> >> -- >> Jesus said: Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and die= s, >> it >> remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. >> >> John 12:24 (ESV) >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Sisc-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sisc-users >> > <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Johannes B= ruegmann <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">joha= [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.= 8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> > Hello,<br> > <br> > i am trying to get "store and resume" to work. I want to do som= e<br> > computation and when a certain point of computation is reached store<br> > the state of *everything* onto disk, in order to resume from thereon<br> > later in a new session/repl.<br> > </blockquote><div><br><br>..snip..<br><br>Given the resulting size of the= stored environment, it looks like you're serializing more than just th= e modifications you've made.=A0 My guess without looking much further i= nto it, is that there are unserializable values on the stack, such as ports= or in your latter example Java proxy objects.=A0 Unfortunately you need to= store these differently.=A0 SISCWeb, afaik, puts these in parameter object= s, and reinitializes them on startup.=A0 <br> > <br>Additionally, there are known problems with syntax environments not b= eing completely contained within user-defined environments.=A0 In the simpl= er example, its possible that serializing your *environment* winds up seria= lizing the global syntax environment and then some other stuff that it shou= ldn't.=A0 See if you can separate your base library code and load it no= rmally before deserializing your environment.<br> > <br>Scott<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-l= eft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:= 1ex;"><br> > The toy example looks like this and it works:<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# cat store-and-resume.scm<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(import file-manipulation)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(import serial-io)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(define (serialize-to-file fname val)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(if (not (file-exists? fname))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(call-with-serial-output-file fname (lambda (p) (= serialize val p)))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0#f))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(define (deserialize-from-file fname)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(if (file-exists? fname)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(call-with-serial-input-file fname deserialize)<b= r> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0#f))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(define-syntax with-environment<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(lambda (f)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(syntax-case f ()<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0((_ env exp0 exp1 ...)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (syntax (begin<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (eval 'exp0 env)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (eval 'exp1 env)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ...<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ))))))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(define *environment*<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(make-child-environment (interaction-environment)))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(let ((fname "foo.env"))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(putprop 'fname *environment* fname)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(if (not (file-exists? fname))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(with-environment *environment*<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(define foo 12345)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(serialize-to-file fname *environment*))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(set! *environment* (deserialize-from-file fname)= )<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0SISC (1.16.6)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (load "store-and-resume.scm")<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* foo)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A012345<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> ^D<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0-rw-r--r-- =A01 bruegmann =A0bruegmann =A06535 =A03 Apr 13:50= foo.env<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0SISC (1.16.6)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (load "store-and-resume.scm")<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* foo)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A012345<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> ^D<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0-rw-r--r-- =A01 bruegmann =A0bruegmann =A06535 =A03 Apr 13:50= foo.env<br> > <br> > A little more complex example like the following throws a<br> > JavaNullPointerException:<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(require-library 'sisc/libs/srfi)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(require-library 'sisc/misc/misc)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0(module bar<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(baz make-frob frob? frob-a frob-b frob-c (color)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 color? colors color-name color-index (color-set)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 color-set? make-color-set color color? colors color-= index)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(import srfi-1)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(import srfi-9)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(import finite-types)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(import enum-sets)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(define baz #f)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(define-record-type :frob<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(make-frob a b c)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0frob?<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(a frob-a)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(b frob-b)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(c frob-c))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(define-enumerated-type color :color<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0color?<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0colors<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0color-name<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0color-index<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(black white purple maroon))<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(define-enum-set-type color-set :color-set<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0color-set?<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0make-color-set<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0color color? colors color-index)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(set! baz (apply make-frob (fold-right (lambda (x unit) (= cons x unit)) '() (list 1 2 3))))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0)<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0SISC (1.16.6)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (load "store-and-resume.scm")<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (co= lor red)))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Error: invalid syntax (color red)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0---------------------------<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Some stack trace entries may have been suppressed. To see all= entries set the dynamic parameter suppressed-stack-trace-source-kinds to &= #39;().<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (co= lor red)))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Error: invalid syntax (color red)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (co= lor black)))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0#t<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> ^D<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# ls -l foo.env<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0-rw-r--r-- =A01 bruegmann =A0bruegmann =A0997712 =A03 Apr 15:= 48 foo.env<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0bruegmann@vmax:scm# sisc<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0SISC (1.16.6)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (load "store-and-resume.scm")<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0> (with-environment *environment* (import bar) (color? (co= lor black)))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0java.lang.NullPointerException<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.append(Unknown Sou= rce)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.displayOrWrite(Unk= nown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.io.PortValueWriter.display(Unknown So= urce)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.modules.io.IO.displayOrWrite(Unknown = Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.modules.io.IO.doApply(Unknown Source)= <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.nativefun.NativeProcedure.apply(Unkno= wn Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.exprs.AppEval.eval(Unknown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown = Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.exprs.AppExp.eval(Unknown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.next(Unknown = Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.exprs.EvalExp.eval(Unknown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unk= nown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unk= nown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.interpret(Unk= nown Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.interpreter.Interpreter.eval(Unknown = Source)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at sisc.data.SchemeThread.run(Unknown Source)= <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595)<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Uncaught error: ((message . <java.lang.NullPointerExceptio= n>: null) (location . eqv?) (java-exception . #<java java.lang.NullPo= interException java.lang.NullPointerException>))<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Please report this error to <a href=3D"mailto:sisc-devel@list= s.sourceforge.net">[email protected]</a><br> > <br> > <br> > While the real application i want to work with throwed this here:<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Error in load: evaluation error at file:/home/bruegmann/du/cv= s-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-and-resume.scm:29:1<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0---------------------------<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0console:1:1: <from call to load><br> > =A0 =A0 =A0---------------------------<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Some stack trace entries may have been suppressed. To see all= entries set the dynamic parameter suppressed-stack-trace-source-kinds to &= #39;().<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0Caused by Error in deserialize: error reading from port '= sisc.io.DeserializerStream@3aa42c31': java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:= $Proxy1<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0---------------------------<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0file:/home/bruegmann/du/cvs-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-= and-resume.scm:13:7: <from call to @serial-io::call-with-serial-input-fi= le><br> > =A0 =A0 =A0file:/home/bruegmann/du/cvs-modules/traffic-nrw-ca/scm/store-= and-resume.scm:36:27: <from call to deserialize-from-file><br> > <br> > What am i doing wrong? Is there a better way to do it?<br> > <br> > Regards,<br> > Johannes<br> > <br> > --<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 Jesus =A0said: =A0Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ear= th and dies, it<br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.<br> > <br> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 John 12:24 (ESV)<br> > <br> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----<br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Sisc-users mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]= ceforge.net</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sisc-users" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sisc-users</a><br> > </blockquote></div><br> -- = The Lord said to Ananias about Saul: He is a chosen instrument of m= ine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children = of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of= my name. Acts 9:15-16 (ESV) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---