Re: (no subject)

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> Anyway you missed his point, he supposedly said that "that we had virtually
> no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil",
> and as I pointed out, the fact that it has a sea of oil is what *gives* you
> the economic options, the exact opposite of what the idiot said, and on top
> of that he ignores (treats as non-existant) the options which were used,
> including sanctions of medicines and other life-sustaining supplies.

  A sea of oil can be a blessing or a burden for a country. Oil makes it very 
easy to finance a good army and repress the populous.

> You have now lost substantial credibility in my mind.  Even if Israel were

  Ok.

> our enemy clearly it would bother him more, not the least of which b/c he
> would never accept that Israel is "our" enemy even if the government says
> so.  Recall that he believes US / Israeli interests are "100% aligned",
> which means, in essence, he wants the US to do whatever serves Isreael's
> interests, as no two people's interests are *ever* 100% aligned unless one
> consciously aligns his interests to the others' (and I certainly don't see
> Israel doing anything to help the US, in fact for the US it has caused only
> problems and has hurt our interests time and again).

  Well, the point is, trying to consider Israel as our enemy is so far from 
reality that it's quite hard to speculate how things would go in that case. 
Assuming they had to do something fairly nasty to become our enemy would 
suggest that at that point deaths in Israel would be looked on differently.

> Now, Iraq was never "our" enemy, except the Bush crime family has had some

  So did Clinton, so does most of the congress Democrat or Republican. It is 
hardly just a "Bush thing."

> issues there - from the time they helped Saddam attain power to giving him
> chemcial weapons to tricking him into Kuwaut to murdering millions of
[...]
> absolutely no safer now that the Hussein family is gone, but get rid of the
> Bush family, and I would feel a *lot* safer, as would most of the world.

  I'm not going to even bother responding to this.

> >   Let's just say a lot of this stuff often comes across not as help the
> > poor Arabs but "look at what those Jews are doing." I'm not saying you
> > are a racist, it just seems like you, or perhaps more correctly, these
> > reports, often seem pro-Arab at the cost of being anti-Semetic.
>
> First of all, Arabs are Semites, and thus your comment is both ignorant and
> rude.  Yes, I now that the Zionists have managed to monopolize the term
> "anti-Semite" and use it as a weapon to derail all criticism of Zionism and

 Okay, okay, my error. Yes I know they are both semetic. Sorry. Now, you know 
what I meant though and anti-Jewish is just as useful for what I said.

> In terms of being anti-Jewish, crticizing Israel has nothing to do with
> being anti-Jewish, any more than criticizing French foreign policy means

  But we weren't talking about Israel the government at that moment.

> you are racist against French or criticizing German policy means you are
> racist against Germans or, for that matter, criticizing Chinese policy is a
> sign of racism against the Chinese.  Yes the radical Zionists - such as the
> Rabbi quoted above - would like you to believe that opposing their
> political objectives is racist, sub-human, terrible, whatever, but you
> don't have to be so foolish to fall into that trap.

  Well, let's try considering it this way. Let's say that Wolfowitz instead 
sounded like Osama bin Laden. And so you suggested that "Wolfowitz's thinking 
meant that all Americans are fair targets (just like that Muslim in 
Afghanistan said)." I think you'd agree that is linking a secular opinion to 
Islam for no real reason, since Wolfowitz isn't Muslim and certainly doesn't 
speak for Islam. Wouldn't you think that sounded like a way to poke at Islam?

  Why is it different for Judaism and in that case referring to a nutty rabbi 
is only an attack on zionists?



> Do you bother to read what he writes?

  I've read some of it. Frankly I don't have time to read every thing every 
person that is influential says, however.

> Maybe you have, and you support his demonic and catastrophic "total war"
> with Muslims concept. 

  Very few people will support anything that is a "demonic and catastrophic 
total war," although it might be argued that there isn't a "demonic and 
catastrophic total war" going on right now.

> Well, if you do, please keep me out of it, please go
> to another planet and take all the war-mongers with you and you can all
> destroy each other, nuke each other to rapture, or do whatever else you
> want, just leave the rest of us out of your hate and war and destruction,
> thank you very much.

  What's this thing about me judging you below?

> But this person is your hero.  

  Huh? Dre, did I say that? Did I even suggest that? No, I simply disagreed 
with what you were suggesting.

> Fine, but then, how *dare* you judge me????

  You constantly judge everyone who disagrees with you as demonic, facist, 
hateful, etc., etc. I didn't judge you, I just questioned your wording... an 
issue like this isn't black and white where if I disagree with what I see as 
a manipulative texual arragement (on purpose or not, probably erring on the 
side of "not") that I must think of Wolfowitz as my hero and instantly become 
a demon. 

  In other words, calm down. There is no reason to get so worked up over an 
e-mail political discussion.

  -Tim

- -- 
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Timothy R. Butler       Universal Networks      www.uninet.info
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