Re: Chavez Likes Euro?

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On Wednesday June 25, 2003 01:24, Andreas Pour wrote:
> Neil Stevens wrote:
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> > On Wednesday June 25, 2003 12:34, Andreas Pour wrote:
> > > Neil Stevens wrote:
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> > > > On Tuesday June 24, 2003 10:34, Andreas Pour wrote:
> > > > [ More baseless accusations, this time *not* involving Jewish
> > > > Bankers]
> > >
> > > Please keep your destructive racism off this list, Mr. Stevens.  If
> > > you had any character, which you clearly do not, you would not
> > > harbor them in private either.
> >
> > Do you have the faintest inkling of what the word racism means?
> >
> > Or does my support of Israel make me a Zionist, and therefore a
> > racist, in your view?
>
> I do realize what follows will be largely lost on you, Mr. Stevens, but
> in the event that some others might be affected by your spurious charges
> I will endeavor to reply.
>
> Most Zionists in the US are of the so-called "Evangelical Christian"
> variety - by most accounts, there are some 45 million of these
> believers.  But do you know what their ultimate belief is?  That the
> Jews - at first 144,000, then more - will convert to Christianity, and
> that God will annihilate those who do not.
>
> In particular, the Evangelicals tend to believe (and I know Tim will
> correct me b/c there are nuances), that upon the creation of the
> "Greater Israel" (this creation itself requiring some active racism
> against Arabs) the Jews must convert to Christianity or be annihilated
> in a nuclear holocaust.  In this "phrophesized" fairy tale, 144,000
> Jews, 12,000 from each of the tribes[1], will first convert to
> Christianity and then commence proselytizing others.  The Jews who fail
> to convert will be killed in the holocaust the Evangelicas so fervently
> pray for, in order that they themselves may attain "rapture"; in any
> event the whole affair spells the end of Judaism.
>
> So tell me, Mr. "Black and White World" National Review, is this - the
> desired destruction of the Jewish religion / culture - racist to you? 
> (It is to me.)
>
> In any event, in some cases, Zionism is clearly anti-Jewish; in other
> cases, such as the Jewish and Evangelical Zionists calling for a
> "Greater Isreal", it is clearly anti-Arab, since the Arabs, under this
> doctrine, must be expelled from not only current-day Israel but from
> Jordan and beyond.  (The Evangelicals in particular are anti-Semitic in
> both senses - Jews and Arabs - as they must first expell the Arabs from
> "Greater Israel", and then they must destroy Judaism.  Did I mention
> Ashcroft and Bush, among others, are Evangelicals?)

Uh huh.  No answer can be found here to anything I said.

> Personally I subscribe to neither theory ("rapture" or "Greater
> Israel"), and if you actually read what I have written, without the
> perversion of your racist / extremist lenses, then you would recall that
> I favor Israel's border along the 1967 Green Line, and so I am not by
> any stretch anti-Israel or anti-Zionist; I am only anti-extreme-Zionism,
> just as I oppose extreme Islam or any other form of harmful extremism,
> and in particular I am opposed in principle to Armageddon and all those
> who would work to bring it about.
>
> And you would also note that I have never written anything about "Jewish
> bankers", and indeed I have known many Jewish bankers and in general
> have only fond impressions of them.  It is your generalization - also
> made by Mr. Powell - from the criticisms I have made of one particular
> family from time to time - the Rothschilds - to Jews that is racist.

Implying that *you* believe in conspiriacies that aren't founded in fact 
makes me a racist?

Observing that you regularly put forth theories that are also put forth by 
people who harbor ill-will toward Jews makes*me a racist?

Pointing out that many policies and actions you support would aid those who 
wish to destroy Israel makes *me* a racist?

> If you had paid further attention you would also notice that I have
> included the Rockefellers (and on occassion the Morgans) in the banking
> portion of the Empire, but I have not heard you accuse me of being
> anti-Anglo-Saxen or having theories about "Anglo-Saxen Bankers", further
> demonstrating who in fact harbors racist views.

I've called you anti-American, though.

> The fact is, that the "Elite", whoever they are, will necessarily be of
> some ethnicity.  Judging people as individuals, by their actions, is not
> racist, but blaming the faults of an individual on their race, and thus
> attributing those faults to others of the same race, is.
>
>
> [1] Of the original tribes, only the descendants of several of them -
> Judah and Benjamin and, in part, Levi, one of the 10 "lost tribes" - are
> known to reside in Israel; other tribes, ironically, may be the
> ancestors of modern-day Palestinians.

Uh huh.

So, after reading twice every line of your mail, I'm still left to conclude 
you don't understand what racism is.

- -- 
Neil Stevens - [email protected]
"The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the
sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him
for the same act as the destroyer of liberty." -- Abraham Lincoln
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