Re: The Censhorship Kings Strike Again

On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:34:59AM -0500, Andreas Pour wrote:
> The point is not to debate which side is correct or not correct.  I think your
> view above is completely twisted, and perhaps you might see that if, say, Native
> Americans kicked you out of your country for the Holocaust they suffered in the
> US.   I can't predict whether you would fight back or not, but I am pretty sure
> you would not take the attitude above.

Founding an Israeli state was a big mistake. Your comparision fails a bit
because Jewish people had been living in the Middle East for quite a while
and I'm pretty sure that the native Americans did never live in my country -
they would certainly not be native Americans then, after all.

And I'm not killing my royal family despite the fact that a government
system I do not agree with has been enforced on my country at the congress
of Vienna in 1815. Let alone that I blow up buses of innocent people, not
even those who express their fondness for Beatrix on Queen's Day, while a
huge waste of taxpayer's money is spent on security and festivities to
celebrate this monarchy which used to be a republic during its Golden Age.

> The point is rather one of free speech.  The fact is that the West Bank is being
> occupied and the Palestinians are being crushed.  You simply argue this is OK
> b/c something some greater harm was done by some others; I do not think the book
> was even addressing this point, simply describing the situation.

Fact is also that no matter what Israel seems to do, whether it's a
cease-fire or withdrawl from terrorities, some Palestinian entities seem to
think terrorism *is* the solution, and the Palestinian authority is not
doing anything about it. I'd be very glad if there'd be a sovereign
Palestinian state, but if their authority cannot even prevent terrorism in
its own wings, I can understand that the Israelis rather would not trust
Palestinians with law enforcement authority.

> Actually I realize that Germany suffers from constitutionalized repression
> of free speech and free thought.  It is indeed a travesty that Germany is
> not free to discuss its own history, and this humiliation is due of course
> to a particular movement which, as I am pointing out, cherishes repression
> of free speech, even - or perhaps even particularly - when the speech at
> issue is true.
> 
> Of course it is the German peoples' continuing shame that they continue to
> abide by this emasculation.  Better they amend their constitution to
> enable themselves to discuss and contemplate their history.

I think Mein Kampf should probably be required reading in history classes.

> However, I mentioned Canada b/c that was where the censorship campaign started,
> not in Germany or the Netherlands.

Oh, I agree that censorship is Bad. I just didn't really like it when you
called Canada "home" of such censorship. It's more like Canada is adopting
European weirdness than being the origin of it.

> > Little surprise it didn't start in the U.S. though, glad we can agree on
> > that. :-)
> 
> The US at this juncture remains relatively enlightened when it comes to free
> speech issues, though certainly not for the lack of effort of the Bushies and
> their neo-fascist core trying to curtail it every chance they get.

Oh, I'm certainly not in the Bush camp when it comes to matters as the size
of the government and its powers. But I honestly think the blame here lies
with the citizens of the US, who keep getting opportunities to vote for a
smaller government but seem to stick with D or R.

Also, the US Constitution is stronger and more permanent than any US
President or administration could ever be.

Also, when I can get into the US faster than into Czech, a country joining
the EU in six months, I don't think the government in the US is really such
a control-freaky fascist operation. Or when I can import CDs from rockbands
singing "Kill the president". Not sure if I should make similar suggestions
over here.

Rob

PS: Remind me to ask the organization about the skull with Nazi helmet
prominently displayed in the computer lab here. Can't really comment on it
yet as I don't know the purpose, but it is a bit strange to find at a
university.
-- 
Rob Kaper     | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
[email protected] | temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
www.capsi.com | - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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