Accuracy of KJV and NIV bible translation (was: Museum accused of censoring Palestinian exhibition)

On Sonntag, 30. November 2003 04:15, Andreas Pour wrote:
> Karl-Heinz Zimmer wrote:
(...)
> > > > I am especially interested in such texts inside the New
> > > > Testament, we could then compare it to the testamentum
> > > > graece to see which version is more correct.
(...)
> In particular, in addition to the questions above, I would
> very much appreciate your views on the alleged "humanization"
> of Jesus in the NIV
(...)

I prefer looking at the two texts rather than reading webpages,
so here we go:

> KJV 1 Timothy 3:16 says "God was Manifest in the Flesh"
> but the NIV says "He appeared in a body".

Wait, let us see the _complete_ verses:

KJV
3:16: "And without controversy great is the mystery
       of godliness:
       God was manifest in the flesh,
       justified in the Spirit,
       seen of angels,
       preached unto the Gentiles,
       believed on in the world,
       received up into glory."

NIV
3:16: "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness
       is great: 
       He[3] appeared in a body,[4] 
       was vindicated by the Spirit, 
       was seen by angels, 
       was preached among the nations, 
       was believed on in the world, 
       was taken up in glory."
 
Footnotes in the NIV:  [3] 3:16 Some manuscripts God
                       [4] 3:16 Or in the flesh
 

> Also compare Philippians 2:6 from NIV and KJV, which does a
> similar metamorphisis of Jesus from God incarnate to prophet.

KJV
2:6: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
      robbery to be equal with God:
2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon
      him the form of a servant, and was made in the
      likeness of men:"

NIV
2:6: "Who, being in very nature[1] God, did not consider
      equality with God something to be grasped,
2:7:  but made himself nothing, taking the very nature[2]
      of a servant, being made in human likeness."

Footnotes in the NIV:  2:6 Or in the form of
                       2:7 Or the form


> This issue seems rather fundamental to the question of
> whether Jesus was a manifestation of God (the Lord Our
> Savior) or not (simply a pure prophet (...) or an evil
> sorcerer(...)


Andreas, you are right to look at these texts and I am glad
to tell you that the footnotes inside the NIV show that the
translaters *did* see the importance of being as accurate as
possible and therefor added their remarks to make people see
that there are
a) different greek manuscripts with different texts and
b) different ways how to translate these.

Be honest: Do you agree to me that the above cited
           quotations of the NIV _show_ the believe
           in the true manifestation of god in flesh?

But (imho more important than these 2 texts) let us have a
look at the famous "Kai ho Logos sarks egeneto": John 1:14

KJV:
1:1  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
      was with God, and the Word was God."
(...)
1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
      among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory
      as of the only begotten of the Father,)
      full of grace and truth."
 
NIV:
1:1  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
      was with God, and the Word was God."
(...)
1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling
      among us. We have seen his glory, the glory
      of the One and Only,[4] who came from the Father,
      full of grace and truth."

Footnote in the NIV: 1:14 Or the Only Begotten

IMhO John 1:14 the place to look at if you are secptical
about whether they say "Jesus was a manifestation of God".
You clearly see that the NIV states (just like the KJV)
that the "Word became flesh",
because:
          1. "The Word was God" and
          2. "The Word became flesh".

To me it is obvious that both versions are stating the
same: the shocking news that God (the LOGOS) became flesh.
That's the very moment when the (mostly greek) listeners
got either angry or at least 'considerably' irritated.  :-D

So, don't worry about webpages claiming that the NIV is
not accurate or its translators were following some bad
intention: just look at _what_ they have written in the
NIV: see the words, read the context, look at the footnotes
(when in doubt) and admit that they tried their best.

Karl-Heinz


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