Re: Bush began Iraq plan pre-9/11

Andreas Pour wrote:

>Daniel Cassidy wrote:
>  
>
>>Andreas Pour wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Guillaume Laurent wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>The result of this is that the previously warlike Europe, which has
>>throughout it's history had approximately one major internal war per
>>generation, has now lasted 58 years with no internal war at all. While
>>    
>>
>
>Balkan War?
>  
>
s/Europe/EU/as appropriate

>>I'm sure many will not fail to be underwhelmed by this 'achievement',
>>consider that this means we've missed out two major wars, both of which
>>would likely have been nuclear, and at least one of which would have
>>been in my lifetime (both in the lifetime of most adults). You should be
>>able to see why this is pretty important to many Europeans, and why
>>phrases such as "good" and "evil" are particularly repulsive, because
>>they encourage the previous divisive thinking which we have learnt to
>>discard.
>>    
>>
>IIRC the Soviet Bloc was historically referred to as "evil" by the NATO
>countries; and presumably the reverse held true as well, though besides a visit to Yugoslavia in the early 1980s (where I did not sense any hostility and which I really liked as a country) I did not spend any time in the Soviet Bloc.
>  
>
Hum that may be so, but AFAICT that's not a view held by most Europeans, 
either then or now. The US accounts for most of NATO's might, so it 
makes a lot of sense for the other countries to agree with whatever they 
say, at least officially.

>Now another argument I have heard made often is the reason there was no war b/w the NATO and Soviet Bloc countries is precisely b/c both sides had nuclear weapons and it was impossible to win (MAD, or "Mutually Assured Destruction").
>  
>
Again, I was referring more to EU countries rather than the whole of 
Europe. Apologies for my lack of clarity. What I basically meant was, 
historically speaking we are well overdue for another couple of wars 
between the UK, France and Germany (with sides undoubtedly allying as 
arbitrarily as usual), and anyone else who happens to get dragged in.

I'm not particularly convinced by the MAD argument, though to be honest 
I am not quite sure why. Although even if it is correct, we are talking 
about European opinion rather than hard facts. Or, at least, I am :).

>>The difference between the way the United States was formed and the EU,and their relative histories should also cast some light on the fact that many US Americans seem to have some trouble understanding this. In Europe, we continue to hope that the US will recognise that Europe is a valuable lesson when faced with political confrontation; we have already tried acting unilaterally, branding the opposing side as "evil" and ourselves as "good", and have had a long history of war as a result.
>>Instead, embracing each other's differences and working together has
>>proven (so far) to be the path to peace (internally speaking, in the
>>case of Europe).
>>    
>>
>
>That is the path to peace, not only b/w nations but b/w individuals:  "God, grant me the courage to change the things I can, the patience to accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to tell the difference."
>
>The problem always is the powerful factions who profit massively on war; and that thus constantly push for war and a war mentality.
>  
>
The EU allows them to profit pretty well from peace as well ;)


Kde-cafe mailing list - [email protected]
http://ofb.biz/lists/listinfo.cgi/kde-cafe

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this mailinglist are the personal
opinions of the author and do not represent OfB.biz: Open for Business, KDE or the author's employer.