Re: Another Censorship . . . .

On Saturday 17 January 2004 05:50 pm, Andreas Pour wrote:
>
> I know Jewish culture and I am not at all blind w/r/t that.  Maybe you are.
> Interestingly, you did not say which Jewish community you live in.  Why
> don't you tell me so I can judge for myself how much you know about Jewish
> culture, and how I should interpret what you wrote about your brother?

So you never heard of the story of the blind men and the elephant? All I'm 
saying is that you got a piece of the truth and I got a piece of the truth. 
It doesn't matter what Jewish community my brother or I am from. There isn't 
one Jewish culture.

> I lived in New York for 6 years, and was completely immersed in Jewish
> culture; before that I spent 6 years at the University of Wisconsin,
> predominantly among my Jewish friends.  In my current location the Jewish
> community is quite small but I am still connected to it; but I can also say
> it is different from the New York Jewish community.  The latter being
> pretty large (outside Israel by far the largest) I think that is a good
> basis for judging.


> Moreover, I have heard from enough people about the situation in Israel to
> form an idea of how inter-marriage is viewed there.

No doubt there are very good explanations for the differences in attitude 
toward inter-marriage in Israel, the Lower East Side and various 
neighborhoods in Westchester County. Again, what that tells me is that, 
contrary to your argument, there is no single Jewish stance on the 
inter-marriage.


> Anyone who thinks I am anti-Jew is simply ignorant.  

Where did this come from?

> What I do hate is 
> violence, fascism, radical intolerance, censorship, etc., and if Jews are
> guilty of that I will be every bit as critical as if Germans do it.  There
> are no special rules for Jews, good or bad ones, in my book.

Who's arguing for special rules for Jews?

> The way I see the world, Israel is a bigger threat now than Germany was in
> the 1930s.  It is time people open their eyes to the reality of a
> racist-fascist nuclear power, one which the US has given nuclear-abled
> submarines so when they start their serious ethnic cleansing, nobody can do
> anything about it (not that anyone in the US would try, the government will
> probably just send more money to cover the added costs).

See it any way you like. I tend to go in fear of historical analogies (i.e. 
comparing Israel now to Germany in the 30's) and I'm not going to argue here 
with you about Israel. We were talking about whether a passage from a 
neo-Nazi web site about race mixing was comparable to a supposed Jewish 
antipathy for intermarriage. Just to keep us on topic: You said it was and I 
disagreed.

> > Nonetheless, my second point was more important. I'll try to say it more
> > clearly than I did in my last post. Even if, for the sake of argument, I
> > grant that most Jewish rabbis will not marry a mixed couple, that's not
> > at all equivalent to the statement from the KKKers.

> I do not mean to compare the mainstream Jewish community to the KKK -
> although there are many Jewish groups for whom I would make the comparison.
>  My point is that even mainstream Jewish culture has sentiments similar to
> the ones JRT was expressing outrage at, and nothing you have said is
> contrary to that point.

You still don't get it. See below.

> > They seem to be claiming
> > that whites (whoever they are) are somehow under duress from "the
> > multiracialist experiment forced on us by King's handlers" (whoever they
> > are) to stop whites from reproducing.
>
> Translation, if you take away the rhetoric is, the Jewish elite media has
> propagandized whites into accepting interracialism, and we must oppose this
> tendency (they do not expressly raise the point that at the same time this
> same elite media continues to condone Jewish opposition to Jewish
> inter-marriage while condemning White opposition to White inter-marriage).

Sorry. Whose rhetoric are you translating here? Mine? I hope not. I certainly 
wasn't arguing that any media elite has been encouraging interracialism. I 
read the Nazi quote as referring specifically to breeding. Didn't you?

> And granted they are on the extreme, but I want you to show me a quote from
> them which is the equivalent of Begin's statement that "[the Palestinians
> are] beasts walking on two legs," or the other statements made by Israeli
> *PRESIDENTS* as listed at
> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html .  Where do we see US
> Presidents making statements like that about Jews?  Before you attack
> Whites for supremacism why don't you look at your Jewish leaders. What are
> you doing to oppose Jewish supremacism?
>
> > The Jews make no such claim.
>
> Oh, now we can generalize about "the Jews".  Like they are all the same,
> eh? Like the super-racist Rabbi Schneerson (or I could list *MANY* others,
> except everyone would tire of reading all the hate pretty quickly) is
> representative of all Jews?

Sorry, let me be more specific. Some Jews make such claims. Some Jews believe 
them. Most of the Jews I know don't. But there's no Jew or Jewish group has 
authority over all Jews. Therefore, the Jews can make no claim that anyone is 
forcing Jewish men to marry shickshas. 

>
> B/c they are not, whereas Jewish propaganda does encourage White
> inter-marriage.  I don't recall a lot of White groups calling for Jews to
> marry non-Jews, where have you heard of this?

I won't even touch your claim that Jewish propaganda encourages White 
inter-marriage (whatever that is). It's just too ludicrous.  I don't recall a 
lot of White groups calling for Jews to marry non-Jews either, but maybe 
that's because I was saying that wasn't happening and that no Jews (so far as 
I know) are saying that it's happening. I'd go a step further and say that if 
some group of Jews were saying something like that they'd be crazy and 
racist.

> > This is a crucial distinction. Attempting to
> > preserve your culture through practice and reproduction is not racist.
>
> Wrong. 

No I'm right. Sorry, game over. It's really that simple. 

> It might be acceptable or understandable, but you are still 
> *judging* someone (for the basis of fitness for marriage, to be sure, as
> opposed to fitness for employment or housing) based on their race and so it
> *is* racist.

No. If I fell for that kind of thinking,  I'd be judging someone on their 
fitness for marriage to me not on their fitness for marrying anyone else.

> > Claiming, against all fact, that "multiracialists" are preventing whites
> > from breeding purely is.
>
> I didn't get that claim from what they wrote.  

I suggest you read it again.


> I can find plenty of websites (as well as Hollywood fare) that encourage
> Whites intermixing, and indeed which paint those who oppose Whites
> intermixing in a rather bad light. It just underscores my point about 
> double-standards.

Good for you. I guess given what you've said above and in other posts I should 
assume that those sites and the Hollywood fare are run and produced by Jews 
or people who work for them. Even if that's so (and that's really another 
argument that I'm not going to have with you because I suspect you are too 
thick headed to understand the situation of Jews and the media with any of 
the nuance it deserves) maybe those Jews are like me, and believe in, or are 
unconcerned by, intermarriage.


Seth Rothberg




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