Re: Quotation marks in german translation

On Wednesday 13 February 2008 11:07:01 Gerrit Sangel wrote:
> Even though it seems to get a bit offtopic... ;)
>
> Am Mittwoch 13 Februar 2008 schrieb Luciano Montanaro:
> > Those characters are also in the iso-8859-1 and iso-8859-15 charsets, so
> > they are not a problem, even with an 8 bit locale, they will work. The
> > fancy quotes “„ are not, and may be a problem.
>
> Well, but UTF-8 is also 8 bit (but, ok, it is a multibyte encoding, but
> most of the problems do not arise because of unicode, but because of the
> fonts).
>
> > > And everything nowadays supports UTF-8,
> > > and if not, it really should. I (personally) do not care if someone has
> > > some problems with unicode characters, just because he is too lazy to
> > > change.

KDE4 and Qt 4 both use unicode (not sure if utf-8 or utf-16) but it shouldn't 
be a problem for accessibility.

> >
> > This is not a user issue, it's a distribution issue mainly, and maybe a
> > font issue.
> >
> > And I don't know how many distributions are affected, or how many users
> > are. So maybe everyone is on utf-8 by now, but I still have some doubt
> > about it. Distributions I use have UTF 8 locales by default.
>
> But isn’t KDE a difference anyway? Even if you configured the locale to
> iso-8859-1, I always thought that QT and KDE do support Unicode anyway? I
> once read that they use UTF-16 internally, so they don’t even use UTF-8.
>
> > Ugh. That's not a very nice solution. I may want to use the character,
> > but typeing it must be relativel mnemonic. I use an US layout with a
> > compose key to type extended character, and I hoped there was some
> > composition sequence I didn't know.
>
> I don’t really use compose keys, except for some characters, so I don’t
> know about it. Even though, because I configured my keyboard layout, I
> don’t need to use compose keys for – or … or so.
>
> > I know. I am quite fond of DejaVu myself. But can we rely on them being
> > the default fonts? Actually, font substitution seem to work well, and the
> > arrows seemed to show up for me with most fonts anyway. It would be nice
> > to *know* if there are problems, however, instead of just hoping all
> > would be well.
>
> I have the problem on Gentoo that they seem to use Bitstream as default,
> and KDE3 or QT3 does not really support font substitution very well (but I
> guess this is different in KDE4). But as I said, imho they do need a gentle
> push. If they don’t think of it as necessary to change the default font to
> DejaVu, they won’t do it.
> Even though, I think „“ were in the first version of Unicode or so, and I
> haven’t seen _any_ font without the proper glyphs for it. DejaVu Sans has
> all of them. It does not have ←↓→, though.
>
> > The problem is that we do not have control of the complete system, and we
> > must be a bit conservative when it comes to these issues.
> >
> > I think we can have more leeway with the documentation, though -- it's
> > converted to xhtml, and I think we can rely on utf-8 there.
>
> But KDE is big enough to make some pressure ;)
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There is no code in kttsd that does anything special with punctuation, in fact 
I don't even think punctuation is spoken at all, so it shouldn't be an 
accessibility problem for that.

Might be an issue with the fonts, but I think you are right that that's a 
distro issue, rather than a KDE issue.

Jeremy

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