Re: kde-accessibility Digest, Vol 163, Issue 2

I was thinking of doing something to do my part.
I no nothing of how k d e works, and am totally blind.
So maybe could say if it works or does not work.
I could install ubuntu 18.04.1 to a drive, then add k d e afterward.
I tried booting in to a dvd of kubuntu, and after using f2 and typing orca, heard nothing.
Two questions:
How may the plasma desktop be added?
After logging in to a k d e session, how would I start the screen-reader, and know the keys to use for programs and to get to shutdown?

> On Oct 11, 2018, at 6:00 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> 
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: KDE/ QT/ Plasma accessibility contributions
>      ([email protected])
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 23:27:38 +0200
> From: [email protected]
> To: Frederik Gladhorn <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: KDE/ QT/ Plasma accessibility contributions
> Message-ID:
> 	<[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes
> 
> 
> Howdy Frederik,
> 
> Glad to hear from you
>> Great to hear that the zooming works :)
> Yea indeed works very well. Also if it has some issues with overlays like
> task switcher or other effects. But its for sure fixable and currently no
> show stopper here. I still love my plasma and looking forward to ger my
> 5.14 update on Arch to test latest stuff
> 
>> Wow, amazing! That means our efforts did pay off. This is really exciting
> Awesome Job, thanks to you and all who already spent all that effort and
> time into KDE a11y.
> 
>> Yes, I've been trying to get things working for a long while, but I
> cannot do
>> this alone (neither time nor energy wise).
> 
> Amazing :), its even more fun not have to deal with it alone, its more fun
> and motivating (i think) to do things as team.
> But yea you say it, the bad matter of time. I work as ERP developer
> (dynamics Nav) full day what reduce my time i can spend on my a11y projects
> like OCRdesktop or fenrir screenreader to spare time. But i love my job and
> coding. So no stopper for me too to do so.
> 
>> I'm happy to do that, sorry for the late reaction, I was generally busy
>> lately.
> No Problem, this makes me smile :).
> For me the major issues i see in QT/Plasma:
> 1. bad keyboard navigation (ho to focus panel, embedded widgets, tray
> whatever)
> 2. a lot of missing a11y names, labels roles
> 3. a11y Performance can be very bad here sometimes
> 4. it also crashes a lot with screenreader enabled ( for sure orca deas not
> hanle everything here gracefully, orcas  QT scrips are not as good tested
> as its GTK script)
> 5. my nasty ezoom issues lol
> 
> I already read some stuff and found the widgets are mostly (all?) weitten
> in qml.
> i understood that quite good because no black magic here :).
> Some useful links to me i want to share because they may help others too:
> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtquick-accessible.html
> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtquick-keynavigation.html
> https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Plasma5/QML2/GettingStarted
> 
> I currently play with that.
> 
>> I think there are some tasks on phabricator which KDE uses for planning.
>> 
>> https://phabricator.kde.org/ is the general website, also used for code
>> review.
>> 
>> There is a project for Plasma Accessibility:
>> https://phabricator.kde.org/project/view/249/
> Yea i already found that and see some stuff like  missing a11y labels or
> keyboard nav here and there. So fits with my observations.
> 
> But i see no way to register at this website to comment, create todos or
> send patches? How is the wotkflow here?
> 
>> I think the first thing would be to go through the list and see what is
>> current, which tasks need fixing and then of course add all the things
> that
>> don't work.
> Yea. will do that. I wanted to take a look in kickers favorite/  
> bookmark keyboard nav first. Sounds not so complex as i m a beginner  
> in QT/ QML / Plasma world.
> 
>> Ideally we also manage to blog about this to get some more attention :)
> Thats an realy cool idea! Is there already something like a KDE  a11y  
> blogging section or category ?
> 
> It should indeed find more publicity in fact most huge issues for  
> blind guys are a oneliner by an good dev :/. So much issues can be  
> wiped out when devs know how to care about that. With the nice side  
> effect that automated testing works as well :). Even users need to  
> know that the situation improves. Thats why many impaired people dont  
> use or even try KDE. Because in there brain is still „nothing works  
> there for me“ and this is just wrong i think. A lot of great work  
> already happend at this sector already.
> 
> Cheers, greez from germany
> 
> Chrys
> 
> 
> Zitat von Frederik Gladhorn <[email protected]>:
> 
>> Hi Chrys,
>> 
>> I'll answer your mail inline, below.
>> 
>> On torsdag 23. august 2018 10.16.15 CEST [email protected] wrote:
>>> Howdy list,
>>> 
>>> My name is chrys. I m a visual impaired guy from germany. I m new to
>>> this list.
>>> Since Gnome gets more and more crippled i decide to change to KDE/
> Plasma.
>>> And it was one of best decisions I did. Plasma is awsome and i wont
>>> miss it now (lol).
>>> I use KWins zoom plugin.
>> 
>> Great to hear that the zooming works :)
>> 
>>> 
>>> My girlfrind is blind. She currently switched to Mate for the same
>>> reason like me. Mate is pretty accessible. But there are a lot of
>>> stuff missing what we would suspect from an modern desktop (search in
>>> menu and those stuff).
>>> Plasma has all that. So i decide to try plasma using Orca.
>>> My results: Its very slow, unstable and often hard to navigate. But it
>>> worked at all! thats more that i was suspecting. What tells me that
>>> the plasma shell already exposes the needed information to the at-spi
>>> (cool).
>>> Impressed by that results, I want start fixing up stuff for KDE/
>>> Plasma/ QT a11y to make work for her (and ohters) one day.
>>> So i read
>>> https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved#Accessibility
>>> and
>>> https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Accessibility
>>> what brings me to the point to say hello here in the list :).
>> 
>> Wow, amazing! That means our efforts did pay off. This is really exciting
> to
>> read. I hope we can quickly improve things.
>> 
>>> Sadly information is very rare in a11y stuff (not only for KDE). Thats
>>> why i want to find others who maybe already have knowledge to Mentor
>>> me or wants to work together with me to raise the motivation and fun
>>> 
>>> :). on my way to get touched with that.
>>> 
>>> So:
>>> 1. Is there someone out there who wants to join my effort?
>> 
>> Yes, I've been trying to get things working for a long while, but I
> cannot do
>> this alone (neither time nor energy wise).
>> 
>>> 2. Is there someone out there who can Mentor me a bit for my first
> steps?
>> 
>> I'm happy to do that, sorry for the late reaction, I was generally busy
>> lately.
>> 
>>> 3. Is there an effort what already exists what i can maybe join?
>> 
>> I think there are some tasks on phabricator which KDE uses for planning.
>> 
>> https://phabricator.kde.org/ is the general website, also used for code
>> review.
>> 
>> There is a project for Plasma Accessibility:
>> https://phabricator.kde.org/project/view/249/
>> 
>> I think the first thing would be to go through the list and see what is
>> current, which tasks need fixing and then of course add all the things
> that
>> don't work.
>> 
>> Ideally we also manage to blog about this to get some more attention :)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Frederik
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> cheers chrys
> 
> 
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> End of kde-accessibility Digest, Vol 163, Issue 2
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