Re: Future of Knowit

Naturally, like a good little Computer Science student, I squawked,
"Avoid from-scratch rewrites!", and my regurgitated conventional logic
is refuted before I even hit the "Send" button.  :P

Since I haven't looked at the KnowIt source, I have no idea what the
size of its codebase is, but I'm going to take Michal on his word and
say that, if it's as small as it is, well, a from-scratch rewrite
might not be such a bad idea!  (As though I were a senior, valued
member of the KnowIt development team, I hand down opinions from on
high!)

Sheepishly,
Max

On 2/28/07, Max Cantor <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all - I hope no one minds a callow newbie offering his two cents:
>
> I think that, ultimately, continuing or discontinuing your pet project
> is a personal choice that other people can comment on, but ultimately,
> cannot affect.  I'd be awfully disappointed if this great app that I
> found so recently suddenly became abandoned, but if you have to do it
> to keep yourself sane, then by all means, do it!
>
> On the other hand, I think Mr. Osterfeld made a pretty good point
> about how keeping KnowIt up-to-date probably wouldn't be a huge
> imposition on anyone's schedule.  I also think that his point about
> "the from-scratch rewrite that we think about once a year, but never
> do" was more lucid than he intended: In my (small) experience with
> (few) software projects, "from scratch" rewrites are a death-sentence.
>  You lose all of the hard work you've put into bug-checking,
> compatibility, and, well... you lose all of your hard work, period!  I
> think it's more demoralizing than liberating.
>
> I don't think there would be anything wrong or foolish about letting
> KnowIt chill until KDE4's API is ready to be worked with, and then
> adding whichever features can be added giving the limitations (or lack
> thereof) of KnowIt's existing codebase.  I tried kdissert and found
> the GUI both unintuitive and slightly terrifying, like a nightmare
> clown who screams Lojban at the top of his lungs.  (Actually that
> would be kind of awesome.)
>
> Anyway, KnowIt is a great app, and until the Google execs who play
> darts to decide on their next project pin "web-based outliner", I
> doubt that another project as simple, intuitive and robust will come
> along.
>
> Regards,
> Max
>
>
>
> On 2/28/07, Frank Osterfeld <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Miha=B3!
> >
> > On Wednesday 28 February 2007, Michal Rudolf wrote:
> > > I wanted to state my thoughts about Knowit future. Basically I have to
> > > decide if I should continue my work on Knowit (or, really, if I shoul=
d stop
> > > not to work on Knowit).
> > >
> > > Pro:
> > > 1. Knowit was my first KDE application and thanks to it I was able to
> > > participate in KDE development, two aKademys etc.
> > > 2. I know it was useful for some people including me.
> > > 3. A lot of new features can be added.
> > > 4. Working on new Knowit will be fun.
> > >
> > > Con:
> > > 1. You cannot make your living developing free applications and I am
> > > already involved in another free Open Source project and in translati=
ng KDE
> > > into Polish.
> >
> > Right, many of experience that - having not the time for our pet projec=
ts
> > anymore when having a fulltime day job. On the other hand, there isn't =
much
> > to be done to keep KnowIt useful - for me it "just works". I didn't
> > experience any crashes, data loss or really annoying bugs (so annoying =
that I
> > either stopped using KnowIt or was bothered enough to fix them ;-) ) in
> > _years_. Of course one could think of thousands of features that would
> > improve knowit and make it shine. But even if without such improvements=
 it
> > stays useful for me. I see no reason to stop using it ever unless somet=
hing
> > comes along that can replace KnowIt fully for me and has additional fea=
tures
> > that I need or think I need. I don't see such an app - so I continue us=
ing
> > KnowIt.
> >
> > > 2. There are other, more advanced, more actively developed applicatio=
ns
> > > that can replace Knowit - kdissert, TreeLine, probably more.
> > > 3. A lot of missing features cannot be implemented using current desi=
gn - I
> > > will have to rewrite almost from scratch.
> >
> > kdissert is totally different to me and not suited for managing text pa=
ges of
> > notes - it helped me to structure my thesis though. Importing my knowit=
 file
> > just ended in a mess. The treeline homepage is down so I can't try that=
 one.
> > The UI looks too bloated for my needs - I don't want forms or stuff like
> > that. Just give me plain text, some markup and links.
> >
> > > 4. KDE 4 is getting near, but I guess it will get at least half a yea=
r to
> > > make the first release. Therefore, I will have to either rewrite for =
KDE 3
> > > and then spend serious time porting or wait half a year. Probably it =
is
> > > possible to develop for KDE 4 right now, but it is a bit too much wor=
k for
> > > me.
> >
> > I personally would wait until KDE4 is out the door or at least ready so=
 I use
> > it as my desktop. Then it can be ported directly to KDE4 or be rewritte=
n from
> > scratch if anyone has the motivation to do so.
> > If nobody else ports it to KDE4, I will do it anyway, just to be able to
> > continue using it with nice KDE4 desktop integration. I also don't think
> > porting it will take long (it is just a few files after all, IIRC).
> >
> > > So, looks like each Pro is countered by Con. Or, maybe, it is a tie.
> > >
> > > What are your thoughts?
> >
> > I think the most important goal is to keep KnowIt maintained, prevent i=
t from
> > bitrot and make sure that it will be ported to KDE4. This kind of maint=
enance
> > shouldn't be too much work (c, and any of us can do. If you don't want =
to do
> > that, I would volunteer.
> >
> > Then, there are people like Max who might want to improve KnowIt by sma=
ll
> > corrections or even new features. That could improve KnowIt gradually, =
even
> > if slowly. Having sentimental feelings for KnowIt as it was my first KDE
> > project I contributed code to ever, I also see small apps like KnowIt a=
 good
> > way to get started with KDE development.
> >
> > Third, there is the "big rewrite" and redesigning from scratch that we =
think
> > of once a year or so but probably never will do :P
> > Chances being small that it will happen, making the latest source avail=
able
> > easily and encouraging others to work on it won't hurt. And if it only
> > increases the chance of a glorious knowit future from 0.1 to 0.2%.
> >
> > So make sure that 1) KnowIt survives in its hibernation state it is in =
now for
> > some time. 2) make it easy for other developers to access the source and
> > create patches (for lazy bums like me, that would be an SVN checkout).
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share=
 your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=
=3DDEVDEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Knowit-devel mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/knowit-devel
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Max Cantor
> Designer, Illustrator and Computer Automator
> 802-447-ICON (on-campus)
> 516-639-1807 (mobile)
> http://inspiranity.com
>


-- =

Max Cantor
Designer, Illustrator and Computer Automator
802-447-ICON (on-campus)
516-639-1807 (mobile)
http://inspiranity.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3DDE=
VDEV